What's In Your Hand? | The Kittingers | EP 114

Be of good cheer. Be of good courage. Because this isn't all there is. If this is all there was, oh man, we should be pitied, right? But no, we have hope in Jesus. God didn't take stripes on His back just for physical healing. That's for emotional healing. Maybe the answers could be found just in being heard and being seen and finding someone else that understands. I was seeing God's hand in the prayers that I was praying for other people. When you are not focused on yourself, it frees you to actually be part of a miracle in somebody else's life. Welcome to iRefresh, where we talk about the power of prayer and God's Word. All righty, when are we ready? Okay. Welcome to another episode of iRefresh's podcast. I have with me Danny and Carrie Kittinger. Welcome. We're glad to be here, Cheryl. Glad to be here. Thanks for having us. It's what a joy. We go back and we have this incredible book of conversations called What Matters Most, and Danny wrote. And in that, I have got a lot of tabs and our conversation, there's so many things that that I've highlighted that I wanted us to cover. And part of it is, I love this because I remember doing teaching years ago is what is in my hand that the Lord asked of us. And then also something, Carrie, you've done over the years with me in our gatherings and in our here in the studio, talking about hope. So those are two places we're going to start in on. And really is what does God have for you in this season of life, both of you as a couple and then individually? What is God doing? You want to go ahead? You go first? Yeah. Yeah, I like what you're talking about, Cheryl, with what's in our hand currently, and even really going with hope. Because what's in our hands, you were saying earlier with Moses, the rod in his hand, but his hope was in the Lord. David with the stones in his hand. His hope was in the Lord. And so for us, we're in a different season right now. Our kids are grown. They've grown and flown the nest. Happened too fast. It did. Yes, it did. I agree, yes. Yeah. Of course, we don't look that old, right? We're young. Right? Yes, yes. But we're young. Yes. But we're also so we I think they call it the sandwich generation where, you know, we've released our kids, but yet we're still, you know, just we enjoy being with them. We're speaking into their lives. And then we have our amazing season where our daughter had moved out and then moved back in for a time. And our nephew. went to Chicago, got a degree, and then came back and lived with us for a time. So we've had seasons where they've come back. The empty nester nest. Yes. Right. So we are finally now empty nesters. For sure. Right. For sure. And we never minded when they landed for a bit. No, we loved it. Just to, you know. But you're grandparenting, but. We have a grand dog. Dog. Yes. There we go. We have three grand dogs. That we love. Yes, we do. But that whole part about like what's in our hands and the season that we're in for us, we're that sandwich generation where we've got our young adult kids that are grown and flown. And then we have our moms who are amazing. And we feel so blessed to have them in our lives. But we keep a watchful eye on them. And so there's this, we're in this balance. Caregiving is a thing. It really is. We're in the balance of, oh, we're not young anymore. Right? Like our young adult kids are like, oh, we still sort of feel that way. But wait, we're not. But you're adulting with your parents. Yes. That transition that people go through, that is really challenging. So, but then to say, okay, but, but with that hope to say, well, Lord, it's not just about the younger generation. It's not just about the older generation. There's something for us in this season and now what we have our hands to. Um, so. But you guys haven't even hit on, in addition to all of that life, uh, I mean, I'm a CFO of a company that's growing and active. And so I devote a lot of my time and attention there. And you've given how many? 30 years? 31 years. 31 years to the same company. That's right. That is a loyalty. That is unheard of these days. Yes. They're wonderful men to work for. Speaks a lot to Danny, but it also speaks a lot to the guys that he works for. They're great men. Yes. And, and all the other things we're involved with, uh, the call of God that you feel gifts and talents that, you know, there's, there's, there's ministry gifts that he's given to you, Cheryl, and to Carrie and to me. And, and so sometimes, uh, what, what is in our hand? Well, we have these degrees from old Roberts university, the three of us, and we've got, uh, a lot of friendships and connections with people, um, But like Carrie said, I think you hold all of those things and you present them to the Lord and constantly ask him, what is mine to do? I'm just a father. I'm a husband. I'm a son. I'm an uncle. I'm a brother. I'm a friend. And I really think those are the most important things about us. Not that I'm unbelievably successful at my work, but I am successful. A productive employee. And successful. And I'm active in it. We've served in a variety of capacities. We've been elders at various churches. And Carrie and I have led marriage retreats. And we've done teaching classes on marriage and family and all of that. We just volunteered. We just helped. We wanted to be part. But yeah, but if you think about it, you lived intentionally. And you guys live intentionally. You look for God in how you can give of what he put in you. Right. And you reach out to share it, which is, you know, we're in a self. Risk it. Risk it. We're a very self-centered world. We are. We naturally are selfish. Like our basic needs of our own have to be met. Even in a marriage relationship, we think about, well, I'm not giving until he gives. You know, I mean, there's those moments where like, well, You're waiting for the other person to do their part, but you all make a point to live in a way that you're giving out. Because I remember we did something at your home, at your other home, and I remember hearing about how you always invited the kids, the friends over from college or even probably before that, and you taught them the word. Yeah, young adult Bible study. Right? Yeah. You were feeding them. Cheryl, if you feed them, they will come. That's the key. That's the key. So being the hostess and welcoming them and creating an environment, I think we can see that in every part of our seasons of life is what is in our hands. Sometimes we want to make it so grandiose and so big, which is unattainable. Yeah. You know, I feel like sometimes people are so hindered by their own fear or comparing, like, I can't be like them. Mm-hmm. They have their act all together, but they don't know behind the scenes the challenges. Yeah. Right? You guys have gone through a tremendous amount of loss in the last decade, maybe less than a decade. Both sides of your family have gone through great loss and much heartache. And yet, in the midst of that... Mm-hmm. Carrie, you were always literally teaching hope, like out of your despair. And I think that I believe that both of you, you speak out of what you, what God's teaching you in those moments of I'm going to like let hope arise because I need hope. I'm going through loss. I'm going through heartache. I'm watching a loved one suffer. And Danny, you and I talked about this before. That's not always a conversation we hear in the body of Christ. But it's so awkward sometimes. Because you know what? We have cliches in our world of we can pray, believe, and the word says you pray and believe they're supposed to be healed. Right. You can have what you ask for. There's a lot of promises about asking and receiving. So what are the conversations you have when on the other side that did not happen? Right. So we can either be bitter, and you said that in your book, be bitter or better, right? You had a contrast, which was so well-spoken. What is it that we can help each other towards living an intentional life? How did you do that? Well, I'm thinking as you're speaking, Cheryl, of Jesus has always been that beautiful example for us. couple chapters in John where he's basically, you know, it's the Last Supper with these 12 disciples that he's really mentored these last three and a half years. And And so Jesus brought the 12 in close as many times. He didn't go seeking the crowds. The crowds came to him, but he knew that there was something about pouring into that generation that would then take the word and the words of life and spread that. But they really didn't. They trusted Jesus, but they didn't know until he died and he rose again. Then they're like, oh. Oh, right. And so then there was this hope within them that stirred them to continue walking with Jesus. But it wasn't those early disciples. That was not an easy life. I mean, they. Right. I mean, so I think the generation that we're in now in the health and wealth gospel sometimes is. We forget about Jesus said, Hey, in this world, you will have many troubles, but take heart I've overcome. And so that's the hope, right? So when we, when we're in the midst of the trouble that we go, wait, we have to remember be of good cheer, be of good courage, because this isn't all there is. If this is all there was, oh man, we should be pitied. Right. But no, we have hope in Jesus. So I don't know if that makes sense or not. One of my favorite stories, which I retell in there, uh, is the story of the disciples on the Emmaus road, because here are these two guys that have followed Jesus, uh, for a while. And they were there at the crucifixion and they heard all the promise of resurrection. In fact, it's, they were, they, they heard the rumors of the ladies coming back from the tomb that he's alive. And, uh, I, I think it was just too much for them. And they, and they walked away and, uh, Jesus met them on the road, and they didn't know it was him, and he revealed himself. And that's what makes the difference. Yeah. It's Jesus showing up. Right. And listen, we saw a lot of miracles when our loved ones were dying, and we've had three loved ones die in the last decade. Mm-hmm. And there was a lot of prayers that were answered, prayers that we maybe didn't even pray, but connections and ways that God intervened. Right. To me, it's like those two disciples, by the way, on the Amish Road, got up in the middle of the night and went back to Jerusalem after Jesus showed up. And they realized it was him because they were like, ah. They wanted to go join, again, their brothers and sisters that they left behind. But yeah. I was going to say that when Jesus was talking about eating my flesh and drinking my blood, which no matter how often you read that in scripture, that's an awkward idea. That's awful. Sounds like cannibalism. Yes. And so these guys didn't know what he was talking about. And he's saying, you got to do this. And all these people left, hundreds. Right. And Jesus then turns to his disciples. And, you know, that's what Karen and I've said many times. Where else are we going to go? Yeah, because he said, are you going to leave too? And the disciples said, well, where else are we going to go? You have the words of life. And so I think like you're saying, Danny, is at the end of the day, when you've tasted of Jesus, when you've tasted of the goodness of the Lord, even when you walk through something difficult, you go, even though I don't like this right now, where else am I going to go? And tasting of the Lord. I want to clarify that because... Again, we followed the Lord for a long time, but it's a mystery. He's an invisible God. He is, he's other. He's not flesh and blood like we are. He's resurrected, you know, the Holy Spirit. We have a part of it inside of us. So it is a, it's a mystery. And we, we can't like, sometimes I think that's why our young people or people leave the church is because sometimes the church acts like they have it all figured out. We follow Jesus a long time and it's, it's still a mystery. We believe in a lot of things, but there's certain things that we just will never get to the end of Job suffering, that kind of destitution and pain and heartache for, for someone that was considered God's dear, dear, one of the greatest men to ever walk on the face of the earth. It doesn't seem fair, reasonable, responsible, like a very good friend. And yet, When Job heard God's voice and Job and God dialogued together at the very end of the book, I love that part because Job, like the rest of the disciples, said, that's all I needed. That's all I needed. And in the midst of Job's suffering, there was hope. He said, I know hope. that my Redeemer lives. And so I think having that knowing in us that Jesus is my Redeemer, and He lives. He's alive, you know, and He's ever interceding on our behalf. And so to even in the midst of things, like you said, that are a mystery. There's seasons that are very barren, and we don't We can say it, but we're not maybe feeling it, but we're clinging to it. But aren't you glad? Aren't you grateful that our hope and our faith are not based in our feelings? Absolutely. Because our feelings can do this. Sometimes they're up, sometimes they're down. But Jesus is that rock. And so when the storms of life hit, our foundation is firm and secure in him. But the storms will come. The winds will come. To everyone. Yes. which we just experienced in Tulsa a couple of weeks ago. Oh, literally, definitely. You know, I think that's what it's fascinating is those were also opportunity for us as believers to love on those around us who needed help. Yeah. When we had a storm that knocked down a lot of things on trees were going down everywhere, just winds. Yes. Why don't they call it tornado? I guess, cause it didn't swirl, but it did a lot of damage. But the great thing is I got to meet new neighbors in here and I got to bring out my chainsaw and I was so excited about using that thing. And, uh, You know, but it was an opportunity to set a place of warmth and love, which we've talked about that, too, and even our other episode about what is God calling us to do? And every season of life, he just says, what, love? Yes. But the other part, too, is you're supposed to love as you love yourself. And you talked about this in one of your chapters, too, and I would kind of call it identity identity. Because you have to have a strong identity in who you are. Being established is what does God see you as? Yeah. Yeah. I read a book by my favorite author, Brennan Manning. It was called Abba's Child. A friend of ours, Jacqueline Miles, gave it to me. She wasn't married at the time, but one Christmas. And it just wrecked me. He talked about it in the book. He said he realized that God liked him. not just loved them. Like, like God loves you because he, God so loved the world. He has to love everybody. But I had a typing teacher in ninth grade. She made me stay up. That's aging us as well. Does anybody still take? Yeah, I know. On a manual typewriter. Mind you. Yes. She, she told me, Danny, I love you, but I can't stand you. And it was because I like to talk a lot in her class. Instead of typing. Instead of typing. And so sometimes I kind of felt that way towards God. Like he kind of, you know, I love you, but I really can't stand you. But in this season, I kind of realized, no, he... He really does love me. And he likes me. And he likes me. And he wants to be with me, not just me to follow a path of religious discipline, of not doing these sins. And that's what that was for me. It's like I let go of all that weight of performance, of feeling like I had to earn my path. And where it really is a relationship with God. And gosh, I made all the difference. And I'd followed Jesus for many, many years. And there was a part of me that was like, why, how have I missed it for so long? But I had to let that go and just say, boy, but I'm so glad I've tasted and seen. Isn't it great, though, that God is so good to show us and correct our wrong thinking? Yeah. We don't know what's wrong. But we distort the concept of who God is and the relationship he's desiring for us each to have. And those obstacles, whether it's the enemy or whatever, that he still woos us towards that place where we can hear and realize he knows us. And yet he still loves us and still chose to sacrifice his son for us. That is where our hope is. And I think when you talk about that, Carrie, too, is knowing that you're talking about that as that anchor that keeps us really grounded in knowing no matter what happens in my world, I still choose you, God, because you still chose me. Amen. And this is such a temporary world. And it's hard to fathom that. But as you know, we talk about our gracefully aging and being seasoned. you recognize it in a little bit different way. And you begin to cherish our moments. And I think that each of us can realize that when we are in a place where we can make it simple, and you talk about in your book, keeping it simple, but, you know, there's just ways where, and you do it well, Carrie, you just love people around you, is make it as simple as when I go out in my day. Yeah. How can I love those that I'm going to come into contact? Even when you do an errand, it doesn't have to be in the church. How can I love people along the way? Right. Even with your schedule. That's mostly where we live. We live in church very little, right? Most of it's out there at Walmart or wherever you go. What is it? The Peterson quote, Eugene Peterson, the long obedience in the same direction. And I feel like that's kind of like there's a lot of the everyday moments in The mundane moments where, I mean, think about Jesus, you know, 30 years of living in Nazareth, a small town, you know, unseen. Backwater. But yet there was— Building furniture. there was a long obedience in the same direction. And then his public ministry, the three and a half years. And I think maybe sometimes in our culture, we're living for those big moments every day. And maybe there's like, hey, there's going to be hidden seasons. And are we going to be the same in those hidden seasons? And are we going to allow him to do the work in our lives in those hidden seasons? And maybe it's, Maybe it's loving the people in the Walmart line or loving our neighbors as we're cleaning up debris from a storm. And those are truly big moments to the Lord. It wasn't—I mean, some of His ministry, biggest ministries that we see were to like the woman at the well. It was just between the two of them. That was just as much a ministry as feeding the 5,000. Right. And so I think even in our own lives, going back to like what's in our hand, sometimes we might be looking for just the big and the Lord's like, no, you're serving me today. in loving your neighbor, in being kind and giving a smile at the grocery store, or in being willing to have coffee with that young adult that's going through a difficult time. And that's not the thing you're posting on social media or whatever that would be, but those are the precious, priceless moments of ministry, I believe. I think that's so good. And I think, too, is we just disqualify ourselves. We disqualify the possibilities of a moment. Right. That we don't feel like we're equipped. Well, that's not me. It's not my personality. I'm an introvert. Okay. I could just start listing out a plethora of reasons why people say they can't love and serve and help other people. I'm just too busy. Like sometimes when I hear it myself where people say, oh, I know you're too busy, but... Or even, well, nobody's asked me to do it, so I'm just going to wait back. But the Lord has asked you to be instant and seasoned and ready to share his love and his hope with those you come in contact with. And I think that's where we needed to speak into those. Those excuses could be a form of disobedience. Right. Right. You know, if God's calling us and he's called us to love and we're saying, I'd like to, but, you know, those will get us into trouble because it's really not about that. It is, will you take that moment? Mm-hmm. Because how many times if you think back over your life, and Danny did a great, showing those great moments in your family and your parents and each person, even in Carrie's life, the value you found. in each person, how much that matters to you even now is to reflect if people didn't take a moment and carefully loved you and did that in a pattern in their life, like what would you be? You would, you know, there's a lot of places where you'd be missing. Well, Cheryl, I'll tell you, you mentioned our young adult dinner and Bible study that we'd have. So we started that, my nephew, we talked about a Bible study that Karen and I were a part of when I was a young adult and, and Rex had heard of that. Our nephew Rex, who actually had lost his mother and his brother to ALS. And so Rex became a little bit more integrated in our, our life through that process. But the, we didn't try to preach at him at all. What we do as a, as a, as our time in the, in the Lord together is we would just read the Bible. We take a book of John and we'd start with John one. And everybody would read a verse. And the Word of God corporately would speak to us. And then we'd each share thoughts that we had. And that's what we did together. And we didn't try to answer for God. A lot of difficult questions were asked. A lot of tears. A lot of joys. But we just let the Word of God speak. And, boy, it's a powerful message. thing to do. It was a simple thing to do. I've been steeped in Ephesians recently because I'm helping write a Bible study for our church this fall on Ephesians, or our women. And Ephesians 4, Paul says, live a life worthy of the calling you've received. And I mean, that's a powerful statement there. And I feel like some of us think, worthy? How can I be worthy? And it's not my has declared me worthy to bring his message, you know, and he has declared you worthy and he has declared you worthy. And so it's not a prideful thing, but it's a thing of like, Hey, let me tell you about Jesus. Let me be, you know, Lord, let me be an example of you today. Maybe that call is just getting out there and loving on our neighbors or, or, you know, maybe that call is bringing a meal to someone who's in need or, or getting together with our moms or with our young adult kids and, And so but but that's all part of the call. So it doesn't have to be like, oh, you know, this is what I'm doing. And but it's it's that dailiness of following him. And we're each unique. Right. So Carrie and I probably function more in the role of. encouragers and disciplers than we do evangelists or, and Carrie's got a teaching gift. Also apostle. Yeah. Foundation. Yeah. So you lay that together as a couple, which I think is great too, is because you do have a ministry called Sons and Daughters International, which you, you're kind of highlighting it. And it's, Really, it is for both Danny and Carrie together as a couple that they're really wanting to make sure as individuals, whether you're single, married, what have you, is giving you an opportunity to be enriched in the word of God and understanding your value and what God has for you in your life. And as we're closing is just highlighting, you know, what is God calling you? Like you said, what is in your hand? You can speak, Carrie, to our audience of just what is in their hand right now. And even as whether they're single or they're in a marriage or in different realms, whether it's a hard marriage, an unfaithful marriage, or just struggling to have communications, or there's the person who's wanting to get married. Like, how can you speak hope into them and look into what God has for them? I would say what is in your hands, what is in our hands, it's life. Jesus has come to give us life. And so, you know, at the end of the day, we each have breath in our lungs, right? And so it's not over. This is the life that he's given us. There's a reason that he had us born in this time, in this season. And so sometimes I think we can look to the past and go, oh, I wish it was still this way. Or we can only look to the future and go, I can't wait for this season to be over. But just saying, no, this is the era and the time that God has given. has asked us to be in. And so just walking, following him, walking in his footsteps, trusting him, and being willing to just be a vessel of life and hope to others. And so I would just want to encourage, no matter what season you find yourself in, no matter where you find yourself, that you are a conduit of his life because he has put life within you. And that in the Lord, our best days are ahead because this isn't all there is. So we have life right now, but there's an eternal life for us that Jesus has prepared for us. And so what I would want to say is, if someone out there is listening or watching and you've never made the decision to follow Jesus, we're going to have something in the show notes for you to be able to look at some scriptures. And we wanted to say, we want each and every one of you to know the hope of life in Jesus. That's for sure. And I would encourage you, too, that if you feel like what she said is a little too much, like you don't feel inspired by the season or you feel like it's a little heavy. And if your marriage has fallen apart or you've got some brokenness or sickness, wherever you're at, I would encourage you to go to Jesus and just be with him. And that could look like. like it looks for us most mornings is sitting on the couch with the word of God open with a cup of coffee, allowing him to speak to EFT, if you like allowing him to, for those in Britain, uh, allowing him to speak to your heart. And, and it's not, you're not reading the word as a, as a, as a rule book or, uh, or a philosophy. You're looking for relationship with, with, uh, Jesus Christ. And, and, I'm just telling you, he'll meet you and he'll reveal himself to you and he will speak to you. And it will be life changing. Quiet your heart and pray and ask the Lord to just surrender your life. The dreams that we talked about earlier. If you've got broken dreams, you just kind of let those go. And with open hands, just hold yourself before the Lord and he will encourage you. for being with me. And we want to make sure, too, that what matters most, you can get that on actually a quickest way is go to danikittiger.com, your website, and you can find all ways. There's multiple ways to get your copy. And also, they both have a blog, and Carrie's going to be doing more of those blogs. Right now, she's doing Bibles. Yes, writing Bible studies. So it's kerrykittiger.com as well. And you can find a lot on iRefresh because Carrie has been a host and a and spoken as a teacher in the gathering. So there's a lot of wealth in the days ahead. They feel called to help marriages. And so stay tuned. So connect with them. Subscribe to their website so that you can find that information. And be encouraged because the Lord has amazing things for you. What is in your hand doesn't have to be a whole lot. Because you'll do mighty things. Because it's about Him performing the miracles when you say yes to Him. So good, Cheryl. Amen. That's good. Back on!