Road to Wholeness | Sarah & Isabell Bowling | EP 124

where we talk about the impact of prayer in God's Word. Today in our episode, I'd love to welcome to you some amazing women I've known for a long time, Sarah and Isabel Bowling. Yay, Cheryl! Thanks for having us. It is a joy. Now, back in episode 37, way back in the day, Isabel was on our podcast right here in our studios when she was attending college. Yes. And so I'm going to be highly recommending it, not because I'm biased and because my friend's right there, but I re-listened to it again. And I realized how when someone goes through a disease or something, how do you walk alongside as a fellow friend and someone who knows what's going on? And so, Isabel, you had a really a great story of how you and your family came together and then your friends came together to overcome this. some trauma. Yeah. So I talk about how I was diagnosed with epilepsy in high school and kind of the fallout of that. And looking back on it, especially now we're talking about our new book, Road to Wholeness. It's about healing from trauma. There was some traumas that I experienced as a result of that diagnosis. And having good family, having good friends, having you know, the Lord to be my point of contact protected my heart from some of the lasting effects of that trauma and helps me to experience my own healing easier. Yeah, that's really good. I do want to focus on the road to wholeness. And I really just feel like the joy I had, it was a unique kind of a book. And I would love one first is, what would you classify this as far as what genre? Yes. That's not right. Typical Sarah answer, like left field. Both? And? Well, because it's Christian, like, you know, was teaching biblical truths. But, Isabel, you give it to where you're going to be more in a different category. That's why I was just like, OK, what are you going to also, your part, what would you say? Yeah, so the book is half fiction, half nonfiction. The nonfiction is mom's Bible study of the story of the Good Samaritan and how that relates to trauma. I'll let her talk about that. But my section is a fictional allegory of the story of the Good Samaritan. And it's set in modern day America. And many of the themes that you read through the story of the Good Samaritan, especially in regards to trauma, are present in that allegory. I'm curious about, of all the different parables, what was it that made you pinpoint the Good Samaritan as the place that you would do your writing together? I had been doing some work around trauma, working with a therapist and thinking about a few things in my life and trauma. And I was reading in the Gospels and I came across the Good Samaritan parable, just my daily reading. And I was kind of doing a little back and forth with Greek and English. And I found out, it stood out to me like kind of just bold, highlight, neon. In the parable, it says the Samaritan came and bound the wounds of the traveler, the guy going from Jerusalem to Jericho. And the word wounds in the Greek is the word trauma. And so when I read that, all the bells and whistles went off like, bling, bling, bling, bling. And then I started thinking about it. I was like, you know, trauma is trauma. bad things that happen to us. It can be violence. It can be, you know, aggressive behaviors. It can be sexual abuse of various kinds. It can be abandonment slash neglect. And when I looked at the victim on the Jericho road, he experienced all three of those. And so I was like, oh my gosh, Jesus kind of already had this thing scooped well before the 21st century. Let's see what Jesus has to say about that. So that was kind of the beginning of it. And then in terms of the allegory, I'd always wanted to dabble. I'd try writing a little fiction and I'm. So I wrote all the nonfiction and then I started to dabble in the fiction. And so I had really kind friends who said, you know, the nonfiction is great, but the fiction is abysmal. You would torture a reader if you publish this. It was not that bad. Don't torture your readers. Yeah. How about we give Isabel a chance in her hand to, like, give it a whirl? And so I'm like, well, why not? I got nothing to lose. That's a win no matter what. And so she wrote, like, two or three chapters, and I read them. And I was like, oh, my gosh, I'd be an idiot to not let her do the fiction. It's drastically, I have this mantra, love your reader. Don't torture your reader. Love your reader. And I was like, well, Isabel loves her readers really well as a fiction. I was like, this is phenomenal. So that was kind of the little bit of that journey, if you will. That's great. At the beginning, when I started reading the book, just the way it's like, okay, now I can't read this chapter. Then I go back to the other section and start reading the other. So I'm like, I wasn't sure. And I go back and forth and read each chapter at a time. And then I realized after I did it for two times, like, you know what? I think I'm just going to read through the whole story at the end. So I, I, I cheated. You know, you're normally not supposed to go to the end of a book and finish it. I did. I did it. I had it. But it was really, I think it was really great because I love where knowing the story of the parable and then hearing how you displayed it in modern day was heart wrenching. And what would actually I like to ask you guys this, too, is you talk about the different characters in there. And I'm like, somebody like, well, I don't really want to. Like when I read your your part, Isabel, I was like, oh, I don't want to go back to where Sarah is going to convict me with which one am I. fair. I think I have moments of the different characters. So I would love us just to do a little snippet. Let's break it down in referring to that and how those characters are today and what might apply to one of us. So the story has six characters, if you look at it. And mom was the one who kind of came up with the idea of the six characters and the idea of going through one character at a time. So there's the Victim, the guy who's walking along the road. There's the bandits, the ones who beat him up, leave him for dead. There's the Good Samaritan, who is the first one to enter into his healing journey. And then before that, there's the priest and the Levite, and then the innkeeper, who continues the healing journey of the victim. Just thinking about the different kind of people who would play the characters was really interesting for when mom came up with some of her ideas in her allegory. I actually got a lot of ideas from her because it was it was pretty well done. Like, I mean, I liked it. I don't know that I would have bought it, but it was really well done. Anyway, so I got the idea for some of the characters from there. But in particular, the Levite, I actually is based on myself. Because when my mom did a sermon on the characters, because what she does is, you know, the timeline is the Lord reveals to her these things. She sits with it for weeks and months and like gets this idea fleshed out in her mind. And she preaches about it. She blogs about it. And then this beautiful book and close study comes from months and months of meditation. And it's a wallpaper. Yeah, wallpaper. I'll shoot you a text picture of that because that's like the sequel, the 2.0. Yeah. Our sequel is based on this wallpaper that we have now. Yeah. It's pretty great. But so her sermon, when she preached on the characters, she called the Levite, you know, the church kids, the ones who are cleaning up, the ones who are volunteering, the ones who are taking care of the pastors. And I was like, oh, my gosh, that's me. Like, that's who I am. And so then I based the character of the Levite on myself. You know, you want to love your audience well. And so I knew that a lot of people reading this book would be Christians, would be in Christian leadership. And so I wanted to be at a place where, you know, you don't really want to see yourself in the bandit. You don't want to see yourself in the priest. You don't want to see yourself in the Levite. But we all are. And so these were characters that... Each and every one I wanted to make sure said things and behaved in a very relatable way. Because the truth of the matter is we are every single one of these six characters. We are the victim sometimes. We get trauma inflicted on us. We are the bandits. We traumatize people, hurt people, hurt people. This is a cycle. But then we're also the Good Samaritan. We show up in other people's lives and help move them from that place of trauma. We're the innkeeper. We're the innkeeper. we care for our friends who have been in traumatic situations. And so I really just wanted to honor the people in my life, too, who are all of those characters. Now, I think that that makes more sense when you say like we're all a little bit of all of those things. Because like when you would give those examples, Sarah, in your portion of it, too, I was like, I need to repent. Yeah. Then when I'm reading Isabel, when you were sharing like that young lady who was so fearful, you know, with the flat tire, I was like, it's like I'm crazy. Like, I'm kind of like, OK, please. Like, I'm like rooting for her. Like, I'm reading like obviously the story is there. she's going to do the right thing, you know, and that, yeah, we are rip her, you know, I don't want to give it away, but I felt, I found myself wanting to like, I'm cheering for the right action. And I think that, you know, To me, I think it speaks well the way you both brought the presentation together is there's a conviction that we have when you're hearing it, the teaching. But the other part, when you put yourself in this story, the merging of, OK, Lord, help me to reflect on this so that I have opportunity. God's a merciful God. So God wants us in the days ahead. What does he want to do to change and conform us into his likeness so that we become more of the Samaritan? Frankly, I noted here, too, is the innkeeper, I think, is underrated, underseen, not seen hardly ever, that the Good Samaritan's story might be washed out if it hadn't been the completion of the innkeeper. Yeah. Yeah. The innkeeper didn't have to let a Samaritan with a bloody body into the inn. Nope. And I think, too, it's important to recognize that healing isn't one person. It's a combination of people. And as well, some of us are innkeepers. You know, at various times and seasons in our lives, we are the innkeeper. Somebody is on their journey to recovery. And we're part of that journey. One of the things that's interesting in this parable is in terms of healing, you know, there were obviously verbs that the Good Samaritan actions that the Good Samaritan took. But part of the healing experience included the Good Samaritan left money. for the innkeeper, as well as, in essence, paid for time. So I think part of this journey of healing, we don't want to include money or time, but Jesus did. And the Good Samaritan said, if he spends more time here than what I paid for, I'll come back and pick up whatever's left. I'll pay the rest of the tab. So I just think there's a lot of good, good advice application and reflection available for us in this parable. He's a bomb diggity. He's a rock star. I love Jesus. Seriously. What a cool guy. And we were talking with someone earlier last week, and she was telling us about, man, her daughter-in-law had been killed, had died. And right after that, her church raised all this money for her, and they were able to fly down and pick up her son and all these things. And so oftentimes, I think that... We use prayer as a cop-out for healing. Like, I'll pray for you. Pray, absolutely, and serve practically. And I think you, Cheryl, and my mom are two examples of women that serve people really, really well, practically in times of trauma. Cheryl's great at it. The two is great. Cheryl, you are phenomenal. When I read her part of The Innkeeper, I literally thought about you. That's right. And I've watched you, Cheryl, again and again and again over decades, right? Because we've known each other that long. And I've seen you. You've modeled that for me when I was one of your RAs. Ha ha. Yes. Now, we go, yeah, incredibly like more years than we want to just define. But pre-Isabelle. Yes. You were in God's mind and we just didn't know exactly when you were landing. But I think what's interesting, though, too, is I love that the two of you coming together for the reason of a couple of different things. It's yes, to deal with trauma from all facets that you specified. But I think when you say the practical part of our everyday life, And I think one of the things that I learned even from my husband is he's like, I look for God every day. We can find God if we're looking for him, which means are we opening our eyes to see and we're looking at the outlook of like, where God are you having me serve? That means if I'm going to the grocery store, if I'm just doing my normal errands or if I'm in the workplace. I don't have to preach the gospel and we're supposed to emulate and be his hands and feet. So how that looks in all of our lives, no matter if you're in full-time ministry as you are or I kind of bounce in and out between multiple things, I think you guys really give a good highlight of what that looks like in the book. I really want to point out is that. You give the examples that help to see like, oh, like me just reached out to someone. It could be a simple text. I think sometimes we overthink it in our brain or we think about it, then we forget about it. Yeah. Maybe you could highlight a couple of areas where you see how we today can be the innkeeper. What would you guys suggest to that? So one thing that I am really about, especially when it comes to trauma, is being a safe space. And the inn was a safe place for the victim to rest, to recover, and then get sent on his way. And when it comes to trauma, it's not just the physical harm or the immediate harm. Trauma is lasting. And trauma is something where when you're experiencing your own road to wholeness and your own journey of healing from trauma – there are things that will continually come up. There are trauma responses. I was in a car accident a year ago and I was the passenger. And three months later, I was in the car and my brother was driving and I was panicking that he was going to crash the car. And he was like, this is not you. And I was like, oh. And so in that moment, he was a safe space to call me. This is not you. This is not what is actually happening. This is a trauma response. And so he was a safe space. The other like sexual trauma and things like that. There is so much shame associated with traumatic events. That's a big thing with like PTSD veterans who come back, you know, there's this idea of I didn't live up to this expectation, but that's not at all what the Lord has. And that is not at all the truth. That's the, the trauma traumatized brain telling you lies and perceiving lies. And so part of allowing for a place for somebody to heal from trauma is is allowing them to come to you with things that might be shameful, that might be embarrassing, and just letting them say it and then giving it to God and not even trying to rationalize or fix everything all at once. But being a safe space to listen is crucial. I think my mom is a good example of someone who's like that in my life. The other thing, like you said, sending a text, as soon as you think about it, don't second guess, send it immediately right now. Hey, I was thinking of you. You know, how's your day going? Hey, here's $5 for a coffee. I miss you. Love you. You know, things like that. There are ways that we can love the people around us. And also, knowing your own love languages. My love language is gifts. So I send my friends, you know, coffee gift cards because that's what I am. If your love language is quality time, spending time with your friends and the people around you and the people that you know need a little bit of healing. Yeah. And I think some of the practical things, I like the idea of text messaging. I think that's a great practical way to love someone. Hey, you're on my mind thinking of you today and I hope everything's good. Let me, you know, can I pray about anything? I think that's an easy, easy way to connect. I think to some practical things. We have some people in our neighborhood that have some health issues and like when it snows, it's not good for them to shovel. So let's shovel. I know that sounds stupid, but I think that's a really good way to prevent more trauma. Exactly. You know, for real. So, and I think one of the first things, and this is kind of the defining difference between the good Samaritan and the priest and the Levite, all three men saw the same victim. They were all on the same road. They all saw a dude that was super disgusting and naked, right? He's stripped naked, half dead, probably bleeding, really gross. And if you're not into medical stuff, that's even like more repulsive, right? Like, what? They all three saw the same victim and the same gross stuff. But the defining difference is, between the priest Levi and the good Samaritan is compassion. And the very first thing that, that the good Samaritan says he sees the victim and he has compassion. I wanted to say this, and I've had some interesting conversations with some of my family on this. Some individuals think you have to have reasons and understand in order to have compassion and, But I don't agree with that. And some of us are wired that way. You know, we think first and then we feel. But some of us feel first and then we think. But I think we can all choose compassion whether we understand what happened or don't understand. I saw that with my brother a lot. I saw a bullload of church people. they didn't understand, but they absolutely had compassion on my brother again and again and again. And I mean, I could tell you some really gory stories, but kudos to the church people who led with compassion. That compassion is, is the pivot point. And without it, Hmm. It's easy to be a Levite or a priest. That's one of the things where it's like you really want to steer away. Like, I don't really want to be like that. You know, compass and, you know, that's where pride gets in the way or, you know, depending on what things are, it's like today with the influencers. You do things for the wrong motives. You know, you do it to be seen or where you can post something like, hey, look at me. I did that. Yep. And that's why I think I like the way that you guys describe the way the innkeeper. They just did. They stepped into a place and they served when the opportunity came. Looking at our love language does not negate that we still need to follow after the guiding of the Holy Spirit. I think we'd all agree. And addressing our traumas. Like, Isabel, you're talking about things that kind of trigger that. When I hear growling dogs, it, the way a certain sound is, it will trigger me because I was attacked by our dog. And, and I had a lot of trauma on my leg for months. And so it's, it's one of those things where it's gotten a little bit better. But when I hear a sound, the first thing in my brain is I, I tense up and I'm like, okay, she's gone. You know, and I'm like, okay, not all dogs are that way. She had cancer. I'm like, you know, you have to that talking through. And I think, The value is I think what I do appreciate with your book, I really wanted to focus on too, is if you are someone who's experienced a trauma, those who are listening, is, you know, Sarah brings it to a practical place where there's a worksheet on each one of the chapters. She breaks it down and gives you the opportunity to start to ask yourself questions that to contemplate. Now, I started to do that. I thought, well, I'm never going to get this all read because I'm like, there's a lot of thinking. You're like, you're really going back to, for me, a lot longer in space. And then it was more of to introspect and consider, well, is that an issue in my life? Well, but she's having me do go through the process. And I think this is a place where you can begin, if someone's never really dealt with trauma, or I think I've learned is you go through seasons, you think that you're healed with something, And you're like, oh, here's another round. Yep. Where you need God to minister another something. Yep. And I think that this is a great tool for... for what I saw with people that are walking through the whole gamut, something, whether it's serious or something that's still, it's living in fear or we're captivated by some emotion in our life that keeps us in that place that's contrary to what God wants to do. But who would you advise to read a book like this? So we really wrote the book to be applicable to anyone because we all experience trauma. And so wherever somebody is at on their road to wholeness, on their road of healing from trauma, this is a book where you can find, you know, something to relate to on that road. And trauma is universal, but so is Jesus. And so the truths that Jesus gives in the parables and in the word, they apply for eternity. They're everlasting. And so really, we recommend this book to anyone and everyone. And that's also why we did the fiction-nonfiction, because I'm somebody that learns a lot more from fiction than where other people might learn more from nonfiction. And so I loved writing this book because I wish there had been something similar when I was going through some of the trauma that I experienced, especially in high school, because all the books that talk about going through trauma and healing, they're all very... almost clinical and my brain just doesn't work like that. I need to be told a story to understand it. And so that's why I loved writing this book too, because it's a very valuable tool. We tried to not make it too religious either. And I think one of the ways you do that is you're mindful of the vocabulary. But at the same time, I think there's an important blending, if you will, of Christian values and Christian perspective that, And at the same time, there's good value as it relates to some of the psychology stuff. I don't think we should throw the baby out with a bathwater. You know, do this at the expense of the other. Like, just do all therapy, do all counseling, do all psychologists. No God. And then at the other end of it is do all God and all Bible. And I think there's a nice God can work. in a variety of ways and through a variety of contexts. And that's what I've found in my life. And I think when I'm open to that, then I can also continue to experience healing and let healing flow through me for people. Because again, this book is not only for the people who have experienced trauma, but this book is also for people who are helping others in that, journey along the way. And also, this book is for those of us who might have some religious upbringing background that we... can see ugly in people and we're repelled by it. And we just keep walking. Keep your distance. Don't hope it's not contagious, you know, kind of idea. So I think the book is really valuable across the board for, I think it lends itself towards people who are Christians generally. But I think it also isn't so Christianese that a non-Christian person, secular person couldn't pick it up and read it as well. And I think what I see is for readers is to consider is there's entertainment, actually. I mean, because there's a good story. Like it captured my entertainment. Like Saturday, I'd like that's what I did all afternoon and I finished it up. And I do have a lot of questions. And I'm going to shorten it here. The Jericho Road. You highlight that, and I'm like, you made the Jericho Road significant. I would like you just like, because I never thought about it. Like, why was that so important in the writing of it? Why did Jesus pick the Jericho Road, you know? And I think, too, Cheryl, you probably remember back in the day we used to sing that song, He found me bleeding and dying on the Jericho Road, and he'd work. So Jesus talks about it. And this Jericho Road, I think it's reflective of our journey in life. And you have this dude going from Jerusalem down to Jericho. And this road was familiar. Everybody knew it was filled with all kinds of robbers. I remember doing the research on it. Had these little windy switchbacks and these, you know, bandits would hide in the switchbacks and jump somebody. And it wasn't uncommon for people to get, you know, accosted, beat up, robbed. But that's life. And on our journey in life, that's what happens. We go through and that's what happens to people we see along the journey with us. So I think it's important for us to consider everything that Jesus tells us, there's massive application. And so And we happen to just be doing this journey called life and there's switchbacks and unexpected experiences. And let's hope that we're not the bandits, you know, out of our own trauma. Yeah. Because her people hurt people like you mentioned earlier. Yeah. Yeah, it's true. You know, as we're closing, one of the things, too, I thought about, I see the innkeeper is more of a caregiver. And you refer to the people actually also, they may have the trauma, but they're caregiving. And even those are the kind of people that can use a book like this because for them to feel... seen and acknowledged because I feel like it was stated well where people can be recognized that God sees them and he sees that significance in their lives. You have a critical part and I don't know if everybody understands that every part that we do, it's a ripple effect. So if we just do our little part, it can affect somebody else. And maybe there's something else that you may want to highlight in your book, but I just thought it was really well constructed to give... Two unusual methods blending together to really bring a different take on not just the story, but the significance and how it can help to bring health and healing, which is what you talk about is what Jesus is here to do. Yeah. Yep. And on the innkeeper, Isabella, you need to speak to that and how that bridges in for our sequel. Okay. So I read, when I read mom's chapter on the innkeeper, I was, I mean, I was reminded of you, Cheryl. There was all these secret people and you're right. A lot of care and a lot of time and energy is spent that goes unnoticed. And I think that God notices and not a second of care is wasted, not a minute of listening to someone talk about their trauma or spending time with them. That is not wasted time. That is precious time in part of somebody's healing process. And it's hard too to see kind of the fruit of a significant amount of healing time with your friends. If, if, you know, somebody has been going through something for years, it can be very discouraging not to see them making progress, but that doesn't mean that you should stop pouring into them. And so this character of the innkeeper is, I love she was one of my favorites to write. And actually, we're working on a sequel to this book. It's called The Road Home. And the parable is the prodigal son. And the character of the innkeeper shows up along with a couple of other familiar characters in the sequel. So we're writing it right now. It's pretty exciting. I love that. That is so creative. What a beautiful way to like, yeah, like I can't wait. I'm going to look forward to reading that. And, you know, one of the things we need to also highlight with about the caregiver is you guys are very much a part of that because you have a ministry outlet called Saving Moses. And I want us in our conclusion is could you highlight for our listeners of what Saving Moses does so that we can let more people have a greater awareness of the impact? Yeah. Yep. So saving Moses, the idea of it is Moses is in the Nile River. He's three months old. He's going to get eaten by a crocodile. And Pharaoh's daughter rescues him, saves him. And we know that that's a good thing because Moses went on to write the first five books of the Old Testament, Mount Sinai, Ten Commandments. There's a whole lot of consequences that came from that one, so to speak, rescue. And when he's three months old, I think that's the issue is we look at babies and toddlers and we're like, eh, no big deal. But actually that's a very critical time because everything builds from that. So with Saving Moses, we look after urgent survival needs for babies and toddlers. So We do malnutrition. We're working in a couple of countries in Africa for malnutrition. And we do the severe acute malnutrition. And we do some prevention work as well, which is great now. That's kind of a recent development. But when I first stepped into it, it was all skin, bones, knees and knobs, you know, just xylophone for rib cages, skin on. It was just And it's just, it's hard. It's one thing to see a picture of a severe, acute, malnourished baby, and it's a different experience to hold that baby. and to be next to the mom, right? So Saving Moses, we do that. We provide malnutrition formula for these babies and toddlers to survive and continue to thrive. We also do what we call birth aid. So birth aid is looking after moms who are pregnant and helping them in that delivery process. A lot of moms, babies die in delivery, particularly in developing countries. They don't have access to medical care, support, resources, and so... Um, I met a mom just in the last month. Um, I was in Angola and she, this was, she was pregnant with her third child. So she was like in her mid twenties and she lived a far away from the hospital, had complications. And by the time she made it to the hospital, it was too far away, too much time. The baby died and she had to have a hysterectomy. So she will never have any more children. But that's the need for birth aid. And unfortunately, that's far too common. And in America, we have all these resources, but the world is not like America. And then there's no ambulances. No, none of that. There's no roads. So then the third thing we do is nightcare. And we look after babies and toddlers of sex workers while their moms work. Everybody immediately asks, well, what about moms? You need to help the moms get the moms out of the industry. And my quick reply to that is there's a lot of organizations that help the moms, but there's not one organization that helps the babies and the toddlers. So I was in Bangladesh, one of my first visits there, and I asked, I was at the largest brothel there, and I said, what do you do with your baby toddler while you're working? Eight out of 10 of those moms said that the baby is on the bed, my baby is on the bed with me while I work. And, you know, American's like, oh my gosh. And I'm like, well, if you had night care, I asked these moms, if you had night care, you can bring your baby to us while you work. We'll look after him and you can collect them in the morning. We give him a bath, give him dinner. We give him some playtime. We let him sleep through the night in a safe environment. That's what night care is. And these moms were like at a, to all of them, 100% were like, can we have that start three weeks ago? You know, today's too late. Can we please have that now? So we do that. We look after babies and toddlers with urgent survival needs. And I love it because I think it's Jesus in skin in a very practical daily way to give life, to give future life. We do a lot of trauma care for our babies and toddlers with night care, a secure attachment bonding and that kind of thing, because these are issues, real struggles that these babies and toddlers have. And so we're here to bring life, love and a hopeful future. So that's kind of saving Moses in a nutshell. So good. And, you know, you just wrapped it up to highlight your old book again, because I had it was in my little pinky slip and it talks about fill your skin with Jesus. Yeah. And you're talking to me. So it really, it's like, it is your, the life that you have of, of seeing how we can love people and, you know, forget the judgment of what you're not doing or what you're doing. You're doing what God's called you into doing is to help, you know, the ones that are helpless. all of us can participate and think about and plant a seed of helping the helpless who need the care to survive and not be in a situation that is harmful to these children and give them a hope of a future. And that's what Saving Moses is doing. And We've participated, I'm not sure how many years, but I highly endorse it. And it's something that I love when I get the letters and I see the images, which I can't, I'll be honest, it's hard to look at because, you know, it's just a difficult situation. And so, but I don't want to be like, you know. Like the one who walked past, you know, the wound, the victim, right? So we have an opportunity to give. So thank you both, Sarah, Isabel. It has been a joy to have you and to highlight this amazing book that you guys came together with. I'm excited for about number two. But... How would you recommend The Best Way, Quickest Way to get a hold of their copy and to buy one? Actually, I think you need to stock up a few of these books because these are great gift books for people that may be going through things that you can share with them. Yes. So you can go to MarilynAndSarah.org. There's a banner there that you can click on. You can get it wherever books are sold. And then you can go on our social medias. You can follow Sarah Genuine Love. I'm your pal Isabel on Instagram. And there are links in our bio that you can click to purchase them. Awesome. Hey, thank you, ladies. It's been a joy to have you with us. Cheryl, we love you. I'm like, you're the bomb diggity. I totally love hanging out with you. All right. Love you guys. Thank you.