EP 96 Healing Through Vulnerability - Lisa Goins & Bridgette Tomlin

God has a phenomenal track record of bringing the right person to the right place at the right time. And then we need to be willing to look at it, to be looking for that person, and take Him up on the people that He brings our pathway. And that camaraderie is huge. Well, I am so excited to be here today, guest hosting on an episode for iRefresh podcast. I've been here before. I met with Cheryl and we were together for episode 66, where I was able to share some things about my book. It's courageously uncomfortable. We shared our heart a lot about prayer and just having that courage to pray. But today... I'm really excited to be joined by one of my dearest friends, Bridget Tomlin. Now, she does so many different things. She has been an evangelist for years with her husband, and she leads a ministry, which is passionate to my heart, called Sanctuary, and it's a ministry to pastors' wives. So, Bridget, I'm so excited to have you here today. Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here and really interested to see where this conversation is going to go. Yeah. Well, you are the type of person that, to me, is at the forefront of what is happening today in not just ministry women, because we talked about this, how sanctuary really is geared towards pastors' wives. But in the conversations that we have, what we know is that it pertains to church. all women who love the Lord, especially if those women are serving in any kind of a leadership role. Wouldn't you say? Yeah. Tell me a little bit about your heart behind Sanctuary and how that began in the first place, because I really want the listeners to know that about you, because to me, your heart is, this is a beautiful thing that you do. Well, I appreciate that. It's something that is... Definitely at the core of who I am and what's important to me. I think when I look back, Lisa, over the course of my entire life, I feel like I've always been someone that craved something deeper than most people I know. And so there was that drive and craving for what I call often just authentic connection, just a deeper level of friendship. You have different levels of friendship, but there's that I can be who I am and know that that's okay. Yeah. kind of friendship. And my husband and I have been in, as you said, evangelistic ministry traveling now for 24, almost 25 years. And I remember we were 21 years old when we started. And so we're going week to week. I'm sitting to table with a different pastor and his family every single week. And at 21, 22, I felt women that were multiple decades ahead of me pulling on me. They needed somebody to get them. They needed somebody to understand, to hear their heart, to actually listen. Ministry a lot of times can be very male-dominated. And so you would sit at a table, and the ministry husbands are talking, and they're sharing their heart, and they're talking about what's important to them, and she sits there in silence. I didn't pretend to have the answers, even though I've been raised in ministry my whole life. But what I did know is that maybe the answers could be found just in being heard and being seen and finding someone else that understands. And so that's really something that I began to pray over because being so young, I was like, who's going to listen to me? You know, what am I going to say? And so I let it marinate just a little bit. In fact, it was a couple of decades, really. And finally, really believe that the Lord was opening up an opportunity for me to launch something. if nothing else, would just be a once a year kind of encounter for women in ministry, ministry wives specifically. And so that's how Sanctuary was birthed in 2015. And it has just been really a God-driven journey this whole time, is creating a safe place. Ministry can feel like prison for so many vocational pastors and their families. And so we wanted to create a safe place where she could just be herself, be loved, and find healing maybe if she needs it. Yeah, I love that. And whatever ministry that you're involved in, whether you're a pastor's wife or you're just serving in your church, who doesn't need that point of healing? Because what I have found as a pastor's wife and just as a woman who serves the Lord, the danger lies in when you find yourself in that moment of crisis and realize just how unconnected you are. And I feel like that that's what has... happened with sanctuary. It's bridged that connection for people. One thing I know and I have learned and, and it's just stays on my heart is that we can go deeper with Christ. We can go further than we ever dreamed possible before. and we can go faster if we will go together. Deeper, further, faster when we're connected and we go together. So I left that about your heart. Now you are one of those people who gets to travel around to lots of different churches. So you see ministry people in all different churches. rural and big city. But there are things that you see. So we were having this conversation recently. I'd love for you to share just a little bit about what you're seeing right now that's really weighing on the hearts of the women that you're encountering, you know, just some of those things that have been at the forefront. Yeah, I think, you know, right now in the culture that we're living in, you can't, you don't have to look very hard for a doomsday message. Yeah. You don't have to look very hard. In fact, it's coming for you. You know, I think as a general rule, there are scare tactics that are being thrown at us left and right. And some of them have some measure of truth. And a lot of them just have a measure of fear. In fact, all of them do. But I think one of the things, you know, you mentioned the spectrum of rural to metroplex. A lot of times we think that maybe the pastor who's got multiple campuses and he's, really just seemingly knocking out a park that he is not dealing with same things that that rural pastor and maybe logistically not so much. But when we really shake things down, those things, those needs, those human core issues are still there. And sometimes, as they say, it's lonelier at the top. And so that's what I'm seeing in all of the different ventures that we have together through our personal ministry is I'm seeing that. this weight that is being carried and it's not for us to carry, right? But it's being carried by us. Like, how are we going to lead our people through what they're saying is yet to come? We measured, we survived 2020. We've come through what many would say 2021 was even of greater importance than 2020. What now? And my heart right now is just going out to just champion those leaders and remind them what we believed God said 10, 20, 30 years ago is exactly what he's still saying now. You can't look through scripture and see where God ever abandoned his people, regardless of what seasons they were going through, sometimes through famine, famine. sometimes through economic downturns, sometimes through perilous times of epidemics and pandemics and whatnot. God, everything was still the same through each of those seasons. And so that's when I want to remind, you know, Lisa, you and I have been in a connection even recently. recently with Ministry Wives. And even as we sat there and we had a moment of prayer, I was telling my husband later, it was almost like through our prayer and our season of prayer there, you could feel the faith rising. Like, oh, yeah, we really do believe that. We still believe he's a God who heals. We still believe he's a God that provides. We still believe that he cares about the intricacies of our day-to-day life. And that's what we as a body of Christ are supposed to be doing for one another is reminding one another, as Scripture says in Galatians, bear one another's burdens. And so fulfill the law of Christ. And so that's the value of community, in my opinion, not just at the local level, not just for the person that's going and attending church, but as a camaraderie of leadership, we got to be championing one another in that and reminding each other, this is what he says. That's what he's going to do. Yeah. I love how you said that word champion, because I think any hardship that we are going through We do feel like we're the only one, right? I am, and I hope this is not too much information. I think there are some ladies out there that will relate to this, but I have recently been going through menopause. So I'm having severe hot flashes and the woe is me that comes out of my mouth. It is as if I think I'm the only one. It's not like this is, I'm the only person this has happened to. It's just this, this is the first time it's happening to me. There you go. So isn't it that way in the world with the things we're facing, in the church with the things we're facing? It's not that this is the first time this is happening. It's just the first time it's happening to us personally. And we find ourselves just in the middle of that struggle. But when we go through a challenge, and this was what I think of when I think champion. When we go through any kind of challenge because we know we'll face them in ministry, in life, in ministry, with our children, with our kids, husbands, whatever it is, that challenge can change us. And once it changes us, we have the ability to look at somebody else facing that challenge and champion them forward. So every hardship that we face in this life as pastors, as women in ministry, once it has changed us, I feel like we have that challenge. duty to look around and see who we can champion forward completely. Wouldn't you say that's the case? Or maybe that's the way that we can take that outlook and think, okay, I don't like what I'm going through, but I can still walk this out. There's power in community and there's a reason why God designed us for it. And when we, when we ignore that, when we, kind of disqualify ourselves from it, we pay a significant price. We think a lot about Jesus and the way that he modeled that for us. He had a posse of people around him at all times. He trusted a smaller circle. But as far as the people that were doing life with him, they were the moments he was like, please, I'm about to, you talk about an experience For the first time that this is happening to me, he was about to walk through that himself, even as he's preparing for what the inevitable was coming of him sacrificing his life and how he knew that he was going to die. He had full vision of what that was going to be like. He wasn't going into that by himself. He was pulling that core group of believers with him, the ones that had been with him from the beginning. Come pray with me. Walk this road with me. Please know. take this off of me. I know that you can't remove the pain. I know that you can't live this life for me, but would you just be there? Will you just pray with me? And that's what I believe I refresh is all about, right? Yeah. Is that community of prayer? Yeah, it is. It is having a heart for prayer and understanding that that lies at the core of what we need to have and prayer and community and, and, helping to champion people forward. Now, let me ask you this, because you see, I know you see women in ministry that walk this out, and then so many of them, you've watched them really move forward through difficulty, and you've seen the ones that have quit. Because we had that talk recently about people who just want to walk away. It's just been too much. Can you say... And any differentiators that you have seen on what helped the one keep going versus sometimes the ones that that just walk away from it completely? Have you noticed a difference in what? Yeah. You know, some years ago, there was this seemingly nationwide, if not worldwide movement that came from women that had come from abusive situations. And you remember the hashtag Me Too. And all of a sudden, when one woman spoke up, then all of a sudden two, then three, and then before you know it, thousands upon thousands upon thousands. And what it did was that testimony emboldened them to bring what was marinating beneath the surface to the surface. And I truly believe that what was beneath the surface 2020 brought to the surface. What was really at our very core we're now seeing the ramifications because, you know, they say whatever's inside of you, when you're pressed, it will come forth. And so when you're talking about the difference between those that are going to finish strong and then those that are walking away, I had this conversation even online through a private message with a ministry wife, and she said these words to me, and I'm still hearing them echo in my heart. She said, I don't know how to leave, but I don't know how to stay here anymore. And in my gut right there, Lisa, my heart was like, I wish she would have talked to someone sooner. I wish that she would have known there was someone that she could have talked to sooner. It's possible that this might not have been a casualty. It's possible that God could have gotten the glory from the 180 that that marriage and that ministry and them as individuals could have made. But the isolation... is what made her feel like there, you know, and there is no one seemingly to talk to in these moments when, when we're feeling that. And especially for leaders, that's something that we want to bring to the forefront today. Right. You know, is that a lot of times as leaders, you can't trust us, everybody. There's a reason why friendship feels scarce. There's a reason why that comradery is it's a pretty shallow pool. But when we are in those moments of desperation, that's when we need to be, of course, having a little talk with Jesus. We need to be talking to the Lord about this. And then we need to be asking him to bring someone to us. God has a phenomenal track record of bringing the right person to the right place at the right time. And then we need to be willing to look at it and be looking for that person and take him up on the people that he brings our pathway. And that camaraderie is huge. Yeah, it is. It is because we would be deceiving ourselves if we let ourselves think we won't ever find ourselves in a crisis where we're going to be okay to handle it on our own because we always are going to need someone to walk it out with us. And it takes... It takes time. It takes effort. You know, they say time. Trust is built in time plus believable behavior. And the only way I can trust you, which I do so dearly as a friend who I can and I have divulged great confidences to you. You've been a pillar of strength in my life and somebody that I know I can trust. trust with the heartbreaks that are on my heart. But that's because we've invested in each other. We've spent some time. We've met for coffee. We have allowed ourselves to get just a little bit vulnerable when we haven't liked all the things about life and children and marriage and ministry and all of those things. And so... That doesn't happen overnight. So you're right. That's the key factor. It's preparing for the crisis before the crisis hits. If you wait until you are in their straits to call for help, you're going to be fumbling around for the number. You're going to be trying to figure out what, who do I call? But if you have done some intentional investment, some sowing, you got to sow seed to reap a harvest. And so you don't wait until crisis comes to, oh, I need a friend right now. In fact, I encourage a lot of women, listen, trying to get ministry wives to connect to one another. That's a full-time job. Because women in general don't do this very good. And then you add the layer of motherhood, and then you add the layer of ministry responsibilities. Where do I fit me and my needs and my desire for friendship, my craving for friendship? where do I put all that in the myriad of all the things that I'm responsible for? So we're keeping the balls in the air for everybody else. And then there's a day when we realize I need something and I don't even know where to look for it. And so that's what my message probably, if you could call it that, through sanctuary is don't wait until you need it to look for it. So sowing some seed in friendship when you don't feel like you need it, it's really, really important. It's really crucial. And the same way in the way that we partner with people in prayer, being able to be vulnerable before things get really big. we're headed to the attorney's office for divorce court to be able to say, listen, Lisa, we're having trouble. That's going to be a bigger ask. It's going to be harder for me to ask of you. It's going to be harder for you to be able to pray effectively than if we'd been walking a little bit of a journey together. Yeah. Yeah. It's so true. I have learned as someone who has... tried really hard to develop authentic friendships and to not live behind a mask of everything being fine. Because, you know, I just lived in that place of fear for so long that it takes having a mindset of, I'm going to show up here and I'm not going to compare myself with anybody else in the room. Like showing up at an event where other pastors' wives are, because some people's churches are bigger, some are smaller, some are celebrating. brand new buildings and some are, are just wondering why can't that be me? And I have found myself in that place so many times. And I think women do when we, we somehow find ourselves comparing and competing with each other when really we have all been uniquely designed to compliment each other in our life, in our ministries, in our churches. So, um, I think for me, it's learning how to change that heart and show up, not from a place of what is somebody going to give me, but a place of what is it that I have to offer anybody here in this room? And it tends to take that direction. comparison off the table, that competing off the table and trusting that God just put me in this room with this group of women for a reason. So let's discover what it is that he wants to do in this place. And I feel like that that's exactly what you do when you gather women together. I think you have really been able to identify how much women need each other. And you do that through retreats as well. I would love for you to share just a little bit about that retreat that you Yes. You know, when we talk about how sanctuary started even seven years ago, it really launched with what I believed was just going to be an annual retreat. And it was literally a God dream because I didn't have the resources. I did not have the finances for it. It was something that my husband and I had prayed about for a while. And we just had to say yes and sign on the dotted line. And then the resources followed for it. Because my goal was to not make it a financial burden on ministry wives to attend. But I will never, ever forget, Lisa, that moment when I walked away from our very first retreat. And I couldn't help but just say, You did it. Lord, you did every single thing that I asked you specifically to do. And it's kind of funny, even this morning and I was getting ready and I hadn't thought about this for a while. So I know perhaps it was something I was supposed to share today. But I'll never forget, you know, I had brought in. This is something they've never been before. Sanctuary was nothing. I mean, I was just inviting random ministry wives. They didn't even know. who else was coming. This wasn't a ticketed event. It was personal invitation when we first started. And so I was just making phone calls to people that God had given me faces for in prayer, because you and I both know in leading women, you get, especially in a smaller group of less than 20, you get one guest that really doesn't need to be there. It completely wrecks the equilibrium of the room. And so I was praying over that, pouring over in prayer, preparing this program, trying to lead even worship and prayer services and breakout sessions with women who do this professionally. They lead all this back where they come from. And so I'm like, Lord, why would you put this on my heart to do? This was a crazy idea. And coming into praying over and pouring over that schedule and asking the Lord to show me what we were supposed to do. Long story short, I had myself slated to teach one session. I had brought in a guest for another. And then the third session, the Holy Spirit said, don't plan anything for that. Just set me up to do what I'm going to do. Now, Lisa, I'm a woman of prayer and I'm a person that trusts Jesus. And I've seen him do a lot of things. But I was like, don't you dare make a fool out of me, Lord. Because these are women that get it. And if you don't show up, what are we going to do? Yeah. I will never forget that moment when women who had been leading and pushing through and striving, when we kind of waited them out. You know, today's society and today's church service, we're not equipped and it's not designed for waiting. Waiting in his presence, waiting for him to do something, waiting for him to move, waiting for ourselves to be completely surrendered for that moment. when we feel his spirit just rush into the room. And so it took a little bit of time to kind of wait them out. But the wind of his spirit came in, and I mean, these women, it was kind of like, the only way I can describe it was like women walking through a desert parched place, and then there's the oasis, and they're taking a drink, remembering what water tasted like for the first time. There was such a refreshing. And so from that point forward, that's been my goal with Let's Retreat. And we do host that annually is that women will be able to actually just retreat. Yeah. Yeah. To step away from their norm and to let God speak to them, not as sister so-and-so, not as so-and-so's wife, not as so-and-so's mother, not even based on what they do vocationally, but first. And last name. I'm just here. Nobody knows who I am, what I do. I'm just going to get what he's got for me today. Yeah, that's so good. On one of the walls in our churches, it has this statement that's written, and it says, if anything worthwhile is going to happen, Jesus has to show up. Yeah. And I think that's exactly it. We want all the details, and we don't always get them before we move forward. So we definitely have to be women who can find a way and not find an excuse where we just step into what is scary and uncomfortable, where we can make ourselves vulnerable because we know we need connection. And you really— You really do an amazing job at helping women find that connection and that time of refreshing in their life. Thank you for that. I'm super thankful for what you do. Well, I know that today you guys have really been blessed by this conversation with Bridget. And we're so thankful that you tuned in today. And just remember, you were just one connection away from the next thing that you need in your life. So don't doubt yourself and certainly don't doubt God. He has such great plans for you. He is looking for women. And I'll say this, Bridget, as we close, I believe this is what he's looking for in women today. And in this world of difficulty that we're facing and times of unknown that are out in front of us, he is looking for believers who will stop looking for the easy way out, look for the God way through, and then walk it out in your life. And God definitely has a God way through for each and every one of us. Certainly. Yeah. So, Bridget, thank you for being here with us today. My pleasure. This has been great.