EP 79 Connecting With Gen Z Children - Cindy Palen

Today's episode we have a partner with iRefresh Ministries, Cindy Palin, a counselor who will be talking about Generation Z. And our friends with us are Kelly Portman and Sarah Dilks. So we look forward to hearing how you can maneuver in your parenting skills with the Generation Z. Welcome to iRefresh, where we talk about the power of prayer in God's Word. Hello, welcome. Today we are going to be talking about Generation Z and the challenges as Christian parents that we have parenting those teenagers and young adults that grew up in a time that's different from us. I'm a mental health counselor. I work with a lot of adolescents and young adults. I'm also a mom of four Gen Z kids. So I have a 24-year-old, a 23-year-old, a 21-year-old, and a 19-year-old. Wow. And I have Sarah and Kelly with me here today who are also parents of Gen Z kids. And so we're going to talk a little bit about how we do that, share stories and kind of wrestle through the struggles that we have. Sarah, would you like to introduce yourself and tell us the ages of your kids? Sure. I have a... A 22-year-old, sorry, a 19-year-old, and then also a 17-year-old. So I have two boys and a girl. A challenge. A challenge, yes. Thank you, Cindy. I have an 18-year-old boy, or a 15-year-old boy, and a 10-year-old girl. So I've got them spread out a little bit more than you guys. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So just for you all in our audience, I've done a lot of research on Gen Z just because I'm obviously not a Gen Z-er. So just trying to help everyone understand what we're talking about. So iGen is another term for them depending on whose book or what literature you read just because of the iPhone. And they're basically from... 1997 to 2012, 2015, depending on your source. And so these kids have grown up in a world that's different than the generations before them. When we think about adolescence, and yes, I was one, I know how that is, or we learn just developmentally how our adolescence, this generation has struggled through a lot of things that are different than even the millennials before them. So they've been through 9-11 and the Iraq and Afghanistan war. They've seen their parents lose their houses to the recession. They have been in the world of the internet and the iPhone and the smartphone from when they were babies. And so it's a very different culture. And when I'm thinking about talking to them as a parent or as a mental health counselor, it is a different culture. They have their own language. I mean, if you ever tried to read their text, right? They have their own language, they have their own styles, they have their own way of communicating, which is different than how we communicate. So how do we, as parents who have this way that is the right way to communicate, and as Christian parents, these morals that we have set out for them, it's like talking to someone from a different country sometimes because we don't understand is a different culture they've grown up in. So I'm hoping today with our discussion, we can really kind of wrestle through how do we connect to these teams? How can we have empathy for them? Um, what do you guys think? What struggles do you have with your, your kids? Oh, I, you know, I think there's one thing if I could go back in time that I would do is I would give them the phone a lot later. and not give them, you know, my kids were still at that age where the iPhones were just coming out. So they had the flip phone, they had the slide keyboard phone, you know, that, you know, it was so cool, you know, when it slid up. But if I could go back in time, I would just... That's one thing I would do is I would just keep that phone or keep it a dumb phone just because, I mean, you know, it's just, it's hard. And when your phone can't do it, then it's a lot easier for, you know, to control the environment for your parents, for your kids and to keep them on that path of where they need to be. Yes, Sarah, I agree. I think that we're asking this generation to grow up so fast because of technology. When we put those iPhones or whatever smartphone in their hands, they have all that information. And sometimes, most of the time, it's not being discussed with parents. And therein you face a battle. You're already 10 steps behind, I feel like, because you don't realize all they've been told. And some of it is inaccurate information. And especially as a Christian parent, you want to lay those biblical foundations and focus. Yeah, that's good, Kelly. I agree. The phone has changed everything. Let's jump into technology just a little bit. When we're talking about adolescents and their phone, they have an emotional attachment to that device, which is something I think you do. I don't know about you all, but I do. It's possible. It is. It is, Sarah. So I think that if we recognize that, one of the go-tos is always take the phone away if they disobey. Yeah. But from an attachment perspective, boy, you ripped that phone away and it's like their best friends died. Yeah. And. Have you experienced that as punishment? Yes. Yeah, I've totally seen that. When I've taken the phone away from my kids, oh, it's the worst thing ever. It's like living in a jail, Mom. I live in a jail. And I'm like, yes, of course you do. But it is hard because there is that attachment to it. But I think there's also a balance. We have a contract that we came up with our kids. And they were part of the discussion. What do you think is appropriate? What do you think needs to be in this? And a lot of times, their guidelines were a lot stricter than what mine were gonna be. And so, we have a drawer that the phones go into every night. There's a set time during the week, and then on the weekends, there's a different time. But your phone better be in there charging, and if it's not, then they know the consequences. You will lose your phone. That's so good, Sarah. One of the things that we did that I was amazed at the impact was we asked our boys to research what are the long-term effects of social media and technology when you're on it too much. And it gave them some power. Okay, let me get in and let me find out. And let's have, they're becoming adults, let's have an adult discussion about this. And it was really effective in our household. I love that. I think having the conversation, Kelly, like you're saying, and Sarah, allowing them, what are our boundaries going to be? Because really, anxiety raises in teens when they don't feel like they have power or control. And I find with Christian parenting, we sometimes exert more power and control because we want them to behave in this way. And I think the message to Christian parents is we care more about their heart than their behavior. Yes. And so we can put all the rules we want to, but if their heart isn't right, then what is that really? That's little robots who are going to do what they want to do. Right. So you guys are talking about involving them, giving them power. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. And putting the phones down. So jumping back to the emotional attachment, I think that is a conversation for the whole family to be involved in and listening to our kids. Because when you do rip that phone away, I was watching an interview with some kids on CNN and they were talking about how we check our phones 100 times during the school day, which was shocking to me. But the young man on the interview was saying it's because someone might be saying something about us. And we need to know because if they're talking about us and we don't know, everyone in school is going to be laughing at us behind our back. That's a huge impact on their friendships, on their relationships, on their self-image. Yeah, so where's that balance? And we don't want you to have the phone all the time, but if you don't have it all the time, your friends might be bullying you behind your back and you don't even know. It is hard. Cindy, I think one of the things that is so important is to keep the family connections. I think oftentimes, especially as they're growing into those teen years and early 20s, those friendships make such an impact and they're so important for them. But the foundation of the family and their Christian foundation usually comes from the home. having the parents and the family involved to help them navigate what their responsibilities, their privileges, because I consider the technology a privilege. And so it's not a right, it's a privilege. And so just making sure that you continue to stay involved in those decisions. Kelly, that's a good point, but I'm going to throw a hard question out to you all. Okay. How do you keep them involved? How do you keep that connection when the generation gap is so broad? I think one way you do it is you have to find the activities that they like, that they enjoy, and you have to engage them. Even if it's, my youngest loves computers. He wants to be cyber security is what he wants to do. So he is all about gaming. He's all about all of it. I could really care less about gaming. I've never, even as a little, when we were little kids and we had the Super Mario Kart, I wasn't big on that. It just wasn't my thing. I always get lost. But you have to join them in the activities that they're interested in. And sometimes windshield time is great time. Yes. Car time. I ran my kids around everywhere, and that was a good time to figure out, you know, what's going on. And, you know, and I think we would always have, especially as they got older, it was harder to have family dinners every night. But I think it's very important, and it got to be where as they got older, we would only have it maybe once or twice a week. But it was still very intentional. Everybody is here for family dinner. And, you know, and that's where you find out a lot or just going into there, especially teens at night, going into their rooms at night. You can find out a lot of going on. And I think that's you just have to find different ways. I don't think it's always going to be the same way every time with every you're not going to just because I go, you know, watch my daughter do a band competition. I may not connect with her. You know, but but maybe that night I will, you know, and it's just it's never the same recipe to connect. It's always you have to be trying multiple things before you actually will get that connection. Because one night it'll work one way and another night it won't. Exactly. And Sarah, that's a great point. I think another really important factor, although sometimes you get, might get the vibe that teens don't want you around is just be intentional. Agreed. And listen, those would be the two words that I think moms, parents need to keep at the forefront of their mind. Even though I might not feel welcomed at time, I'm going to be intentional. I'm going to calm down when I'm cooking dinner. If they're there, can you help me? And then listen, listen to what they have to say, especially once they start driving, because you don't get that one show. And so being intentional and listening. And there are times that, you know, a lot of fathers are really busy with their work. And so there are times that I might drop a hint to my husband and. Hey, are you willing to whatever it might be, go practice basketball with Julie or go Daniel sitting out by the fire pit? You know, just those types of things, just being constantly aware. My husband is awesome about doing that, but being intentional to listen. It sounds like you both are saying, Sarah, be creative. And sometimes it means playing video games and Kelly, which is making yourself available. And I love that. I think something that we think we want to ask our kids, how are you doing? How was school today? How is this and that? And yet it's not so much interrogating, but saying, I'm here if you need me. Yeah. You know, a kid comes in, you can tell they're upset. What happened? Are you upset? Don't want to talk about it. Don't want to talk about it. Our mother instinct says, no, please tell me you're hurt. Oh, that is so true. But what we really need to do is say, okay, I respect your privacy and your need to be alone. But if you want to talk, I am here for you. Mm-hmm. And that's a different message than sometimes what our instincts want to tell us, is to interrogate them. So I love the gaming idea. You know, something that we do as a family, and I'm sure that some of the restaurants that have the phone basket hate me for this, because my kids are all on their phone, right? So there's the six of us sitting at a dinner table. We all have our phone off, and we're playing Crazy Eights. On our phone. And so it looks like we're all staring at our phone, but we're engaging in a card game together at the restaurant while we're waiting for our food. And so that's kind of what you're saying. It's a way to say, hey, you can't beat them, join them. I have a TikTok account. You know, I have Instagram. We're not going to turn them back to sitting around the campfire and reading books together. I love it if we can do that. Any of you who do that, go for it. But... There's also other ways to incorporate this new technology that they love and use it for good instead of use it for bad. Yes. Absolutely. Do you all have other things? One thing, Cindy, one thing my husband has done with the boys particularly, he has set up reading devotional plans. on the iPhone, and that's been a great way for them to use the phone, but they're growing spiritually, and then there's conversation that they have after doing a devotion together. So that's another positive technology tool you can use. That's a good one. We have a family Snapchat account, you know, and I, you know, I'm saying things here that some Christian parents are no Snapchat, it's evil. And you know what? I don't really love it. I think there's bad things in it, but the kids are going to have those accounts anyway. And so now we're snapping each other as a family. So when they're at parties, when they're at things, we're getting snaps of that. So it's not lessening our standards as parents, but it's getting involved in their lives, wherever their lives are. Yeah. And that's kind of the goal that we're moving towards. And I wanna bring up filters, okay? Because every talk that we have has, oh, these are the best filters. Well, you know what? These kids are hackers, right? Have you even noticed that? Yes. There is an app now that looks like a calculator that kids hide their apps they're not supposed to have on. Yeah, oh my. I did not know this. Thank you for that information, Cindy. And the fact that I know about it means now they're no longer using that one. Of course. Because they're kind of hackers and they're always ahead of the game. And so I think that's why we go to that internal... conviction that we want them to have, and just to monitor their phones from an internal perspective. But until they're to that point, when we need to have some, as you were talking about the funnel effect of when they're younger, we need some barriers and some filters and things. I want to just point all the listeners back to season two, episode nine. If you remember Kristen wise with the demand project. So we can't talk about it all here, but go back to that episode and listen and get her wisdom on some of these filters that we can put on our phones for when our kids don't have that self control that we want them to have. We can kind of ease them into that a little bit. Here's what I'm going to propose. And I'd love to hear y'all's feedback on this, but it's kind of what we talked about before. I believe kids need to have an internal locus of control. I'm throwing a big psychology term at you, but they need to be able to control themselves. And as parents, especially Christian parents, we go for the external locus of control. Do this, do this, don't go here, put your phone in this box. And that's great when they're two and they're four. And, you know, when they're infants, we feed them. When they're in our womb, we give them their breath. But when they're four, we don't feed them anymore, right? And then when they're 10, they can tie their shoes and pick out their clothes. And so I focus on 13 to 18, that is when you are letting back the parental controls. And it's scary and it's hard, but it's helping them develop that internal locus of control, I believe is what Jesus does to us. You know, he says, here's the tree. I don't want you to touch it, but there it is. Yes. And he makes us choose not to touch that tree. And guess what? We do it. But then we suffer the consequences and then we learn and then we grow. And then we know how much we need Jesus. And that's what we want our kids to experience is, wow. You know, at whatever age, you know, you decide with your family that I can have my phone all night. I could look at anything on my phone at night. It is the tree in the Garden of Eden. But we want to, between 13 and 18, teach our kids that we trust you. I'm going to model Jesus to you. And at some point in your life, you're going to have to choose Jesus. Yeah. On your own, which means you're going to have to choose to do what Jesus would want you to do. Yeah. So that's kind of the hard parenting. What do you all think? Well, Cindy, I'm going to come right back at you with a question because the age of 13 is a lot different than the age of 18. Absolutely. And so I would think, you know, if you use the funnel, you know, the funnel is pretty closed when you're down here at 13, right? Yeah. And by 18, it's wider. You've learned to trust them. They've gained responsibility. So... What kind of foundation do you think has to be laid at age 13 in order, or whatever age parents choose to put a phone in their hands? What kind of foundation, because there's all kinds of things out there on the Internet. It is just... Satan comes to kill, steal, and destroy. And that is one of the avenues he has used on this generation as technology. So what kind of foundation would you suggest laying before you hand them the technology at whatever age it is? A really strong one on the Bible. I mean, yeah, it's hard, right? I mean, we do the best we can. Sarah, what do you think? I don't know. It's hard. That's a hard, saluted question because, I mean, all you can do is model for your kids, you know, and at some point they're going to have to choose, you know, if they're going to follow Jesus or not. And that's their choice. And all you can do is model it and give it to them. And, you know, you just have to. Let it go and, you know, start loosening the reins. And it's hard. It's really hard to loosen those reins. It's like I have to remind myself, okay, my son's 22. His life, I cannot make his financial decisions for him. You know, I cannot tell him you need to go do this or that. He's an adult. And now he has to answer for his decisions that he makes. And. I'm hoping as we loosen the reins as he was growing up that he realized that he'll even tell me, I know mom, I have to face the consequences, it's my decision. He knows and so I'm like okay. But it is hard and I just think you have to give them the rope enough as they're getting older that they either succeed or they hang themselves. As every time they succeed the rope gets wider and wider. We've had some great things said. I'd love to give our audience just some takeaways, some tips, advice, Kelly and Sarah, as you all have. Let's start with you, Sarah. What advice, bullet point tips could you give our audience? I would say family dinners are very important. They're where you connect, they're where you know what's going on in their life and you get to see, just because, especially as they get older and start driving, they're going to jobs, they're working, it's hit and miss, there are two ships passing sometimes. And I think that's really important where they, to connect with them there and for them to know. that I always take turns, what do you want going through the kids? What's your favorite meal that you want me to cook? And so that helps kind of draws them in a little bit too. I like that Sarah, food will get them. Yes, it always does, every time. One thing that the Lord has really showed me this last year is from the Bible, David's story. Everyone focuses on David and Goliath. But long before there was a Goliath, David was out serving his family and he was out being a shepherd. During that time, he did not waste his time as a shepherd, right? He guarded those sheep. He learned how to play the harp and he learned who he could trust in. It says when he went to fight that battle with Goliath that he knew God would help him because God helped him fight the bears and the lions. He helped him defeat them. So because of that, he had the courage, he had the confidence, he knew who he was. And that's one of the things that I think teenagers struggle with. It's that time in life that you're trying to fit in, but they need to know that they are complete in Christ. that they are loved, that he created them for a specific purpose, that that is who they are, and he has a plan for them, and he loves them more than they could ever imagine. So just like David, he had a confidence to walk out there and face the giant because he knew God was with him. And we need to allow our kids time to face giants in their lives. They may look like lions and bears, and it's a scary thing to let go as a parent, to trust God. We have to trust God that yes, God has put abilities in them so that they can go out and face whatever challenges that they're facing, whether it be a sport, whether it be academics, whether it be relationships. whether it be with their relationship with God himself, that we trust. We are praying and we can trust God with them. But he has plans and purposes for them. And if they don't have a core strength and a knowing of who God is, then they're not going to be able to go out and face those battles that come to them as they go into early adult life. So, Kelly, I hear you saying to those who don't have teenagers that the battle starts early on. It starts with the foundation and training them up as they're young. You have a 10-year-old. So starting young to get that foundation to where when they're 13, they have that to rely on, those moments with the bears and the lions. Cindy, so I have a question for you. What do you say to the mom and the dad who have a teen at home who doesn't want to go to church? You know, you make them go, but they're just there because you're making them there. They're not really engaging. So how do you treat that teen? What do you do? That's such a good question. I wish I had a very short answer. I have an answer. Again, pray. That's always my number one answer. Pray, pray, and pray some more if you haven't. But really, what we want is them to love the Lord. It's great you decide as a family what standards you want to have. If going to church is a family rule, then you enforce that family rule. But I think I've heard it said sometimes that Christian parents can be preachy. And when we try to get them to love the Lord, it sounds like we're preaching at them. Now, I'm going to throw back to Gen Z here. Their slogan on official is get rid of standards. As a Christian parent, that's not what we want to hear. But even the Christian kids, they are accepting. They are accepting of everyone. They want to love culture. And we can make that happen with the Bible, too. Accepting people doesn't mean accepting sin. So I think we can show our kids respect that this is the path I want you to go in. I want you to want to go to church. I want you to read your Bible every day. I want you to want to read your Bible every day. But if you choose not to, I love you. I respect you. And I'm going to be here to guide you when you need me, regardless of whether you go to church. And that's a hard one because a lot of the negative core beliefs that kids have today is I'm not good enough. And Christian kids come in my office and they say, I'm not a good enough Christian. My mom and dad are always hounding on me for not reading my Bible, for not going to church. I'm not good enough at school. I don't get A's. And these kids are wearing a cloak of I'm not good enough. So, yes, encourage them to love the Lord, but be very gentle with that. Respect their autonomy as much as your family system allows them to. They know where you want them to be. But I do think we let up on the preachiness just because they need to know. I am accepted whether I reject God or not. I am loved. Because that is the love of Christ. He loves us while we are yet sinners. We love them while they are not wanting to go to church. Right? Yes. That is the ultimate. I mean, I was a prodigal. I mean, you know, so I get that. But, yeah, it's still hard. It is still hard. But here's the thing to remember. We want heart change, not behavior change. It's easy to change behavior. And our society wants to change behavior of everyone. We want to institute these laws that... are moral but God wants heart change he doesn't care if we're moral people he wants us to be born again believers yes and that's what we want in our kids they can follow all the rules but if they're not living a holy spirit filled life with Christ it's all actions it's religion it's not relationship yeah Yeah, Cindy, that's a good point. I think it's so important that we check our hearts, too, as parents. Yes. Do am I wanting them to go? Most of us are just so that they can hear the word and be around the worship. Yes, we do want that. But is it is it a pride thing as well? Like, do I want to show up and appear as this altogether family? And I think we need to let that go. And there may be times where, OK, well, maybe there Maybe there's another avenue, whether it be Christian movies, whether it be another speaker that you can find on TV or podcasts and finding other avenues. If that's really a battleground right there, you know, just asking the Lord, how can I get to their heart and listening to them? Yes, Kelly, that is a great bullet point because meet them where they are. It might not be sitting in church singing hymns. It might be podcasts and these books that are out. And, hey, if we can find the Lord for our kids in ways that match where they are, that's great. I love that. So if I were going to just summarize from a more professional standpoint of, you know, if I were speaking to either Christians or non-Christians, I think there's some key things that we want to do with this generation. Respect is number one. It is one of their strengths. standards, respect me and I'll respect you. We as parents often think we're due respect and we respect them, but we don't show it the way they want it to be shown. So ask, how do you want me to respect you? What does that look like? When you were talking about having a conversation, Sarah, about what are our rules? So respect is listening. Respect is nonjudgmental listening, which is very hard for us. Yes. If we want our kids to come and tell us of the sin that they've been involved in, we have to have a nonjudgmental frame point. And that is very hard. So respect, listen, understand that they are from a culture that does not recognize standards. And so how do we get them to see God's word in a respectful way? Communication. You guys have got great ideas of how to communicate. Sometimes it's texting with your kids. Yes. Sometimes it's meeting them where they're at. I want an eye-to-eye conversation, but they want to text me. You know what? Communication's important. How we do it? Okay. So communication, conflict resolution. That's another one. How would you resolve conflict with another adult? To remind myself that all the time, because these teens are many adults, and they want the respect of an adult. They don't want to be treated like an eight-year-old that we still see them as in our head. Um, so conflict resolution and then compromise, you know, okay, what are your rules? How can we make this happen to where we're, we're both happy. We're meeting our guidelines, our family standards. Yeah. So that's kind of how I would summarize. It's hard road ladies, but. Thank you. That's very helpful tips. Yes, it was. Thank you for having us today.