EP 102 Challenged by Anxiety

On this episode, we talk all things about anxiety. It is trending, it is growing exponentially. However, God is present and He has solutions. And we come around the round table to discuss things that we have personally walked through and how we have been able to overcome. Stay tuned. God didn't take stripes on His back just for physical healing. That's for emotional healing. Maybe the answers could be found just in being heard and being seen and finding someone else that understands. I was seeing God's hand in the prayers that I was praying for other people. When you are not focused on yourself, it frees you to actually be part of a miracle in somebody else's life. Welcome to iRefresh, where we talk about the power of prayer and God's Word. Welcome to the iRefresh Power of Prayer podcast. I am Cheryl Clare, your host, and I have remotely our friend Pamela Thomas. Welcome. Thank you. And then around the table, which is wonderful, we have Rhonda Settles and Stacey McKee, Veronica Scott, Christy Waters, Brandi Williams, Caitlin Vineyard. So I'm so glad we're all together. We're part of an I Refresh team. And we have been in a discussion about anxiety. But one of the things I talked to you, Pam, recently, when I was having a conversation with a friend, and we began to hear a Christian friend who was walking through a lot of anxiety issues. And the one thing I walked away with, I lost hope. I realized... Wow, is this something we always have to live with? Or, as a believer... is there hope that we can actually overcome anxiety? And so that's where I began to talk with you, Pam, about that conversation. And so I would love you, as we're all gonna have a conversation, but please begin with us. Pam, you are a social worker. You work with family crisis. You also deal with the suicide hotline. And so you have a lot of expertise of dealing with anxiety. So help us understand really what it is and what it's not. Well, I think it's really important to define anxiety. I think one of the things that you said to me initially that I found very perplexing was when you talked to your friend, she had already decided there was no hope. And of course, many people that call on the suicide hotline have already made that decision too. There's no hope. And we're finding now we're living in a world where people are losing hope. number one why that was happening what that meant and what the solution was for a more hope focused people around us if we if we define anxiety we would define it as distress or an easiness caused by danger or a misfortune um Worry, fear, dread. It comes from being very anxious to please others, trying to be perfect, thinking that something is going to happen. Worrying, a real disquietness. That's a feeling of anxiety. The interesting part about anxiety is it's a feeling that can last for a very, very long time. As opposed to fear, we all know kind of what it feels like to be fearful. Like if a car pulls out in front of you, that feeling that you get when you hold your breath and you feel your heart pounding, that feeling goes away. But anxiety does not. Fear is something that causes fear. Fright, like if someone pounds on your door real hard in the middle of the night or something that's unusual. But that feeling goes away. It dissipates. And what we know from anxiety is it doesn't always go away. It can remain in the distance or in the forefront for a very long time. Fear comes from our fight or flight response. What am I going to do? Am I going to run or am I going to fight to make sure I'm safe? Anxiety can only exist where there's uncertainty, dread, and a lot of times isolation. So this was really magnified during COVID time when many people were isolated, couldn't get out, and this anxious feeling of, oh, the news is coming. What's happening now? Or what happens if they close all the schools? Where is my child going? You had this feeling of anxiety over everything. But because we have God, we know that we can gain freedom from anxiety. And it's okay to acknowledge that you are anxious. It's okay to acknowledge to your friends. It's okay to say, I'm anxious about something. But it's not okay to keep it forever. And that was the focus of this podcast. That's really good. Thank you, Pam. That's where I love for all of us here at the table that we begin to actually, let's identify, like, when have we seen anxiety? It might even be yourself, but when can you say, hey, this is totally anxiety or the effects of anxiety that you've seen in your life? Who would like to start? Christy? I think that going through transitions in life, the unknown. Sometimes life throws you a few curveballs that you're not expecting. And it's natural to have concerns, maybe even some fear. And I walked through some transitions in my life recently, and I really leaned heavily on the Lord. What I found during that time was every time anxiety tried to stick to me, I decided to go to the Word. I decided to go in prayer. I went to my sisters and said, I need prayer because you can't do it alone. You need friends. You need a sisterhood. You need family. You need God. And I like the fact that we're talking about this because I'm working as a counselor in a school setting but also at a private practice. And many times people will say, I have anxiety. I choose when I'm experiencing any type of anxiety to say, I'm experiencing it, but it's not mine. I don't want that to be a label to put on myself. And it's just like you were talking about your friend earlier, the hopelessness. She had determined that that was how she was, and it wasn't going to change. Life comes at us sometimes that we can't control. Anxiety comes at us sometimes. But we have to choose, I am going to walk in freedom with Christ. You know, I'll give you an example. I was talking about, too, when we were having our discussions about, look at a president. When they first go into office, and you see how they look young, maybe. But then after four years or eight years, and you see the picture of them at the beginning and at the end, it is amazing the effect of the anxiety and stresses on their life. Isn't it just incredible how much their skin and everything, they look weary and tired. Can you guys give another example before we move on of ways in which you can see anxiety touch our society? Christy, I love when you were talking about when you were experiencing some anxiety that you chose to go to some of your friends. Because what I have witnessed is that a lot of times anxiety causes people to isolate. And we know that anxiety, at least for me, it's in my head and it's mental. And the enemy wants nothing more than to get us alone by ourselves alone. so that we're stuck with nothing but our thoughts. And so I love that you pointed out how important it is to seek out godly Christian women that maybe have overcome anxiety and, of course, always to seek God's Word first because that helps to renew our mind. You know, that's one thing I even, when we began to do our research, is I just Googled it and I typed in anxiety. And I don't know how to say it. It's 1.8 trillion search results. So it's very trending, the major thing. And one of the things, Pam, that you identified were several things that identified as anxiety that two main points I would love you to hit on Well, I think that we can self-create anxiety sometimes. And with perfectionism, just thinking you have to do it perfectly. You have to be a perfect parent. You have to answer questions perfectly. You have to dress perfectly. You have to enter into your job perfectly. And... I think that we've put such a weight on ourselves many times that we can't really do what we think we should do. Those are self-imposed anxieties. And I think it's always good to take a moment during prayer and just to say, Lord, what is it that you want me to do? What are your steps and which ones are mine? And when I do that, I find that I'm self-imposing a lot of that stuff on myself. Do any of you ever do that, self-imposed perfection in certain areas of your lives? I think we can all raise, I don't know, who isn't a perfectionist? I'm like, I'd like to know who you are because you need to rub off on me. I mean, isn't that the hard thing is we're always striving to be something we can't always arrive to because our own expectations or, you know, maybe it's in a work setting, too, is the expectation you have of somebody, your boss or whatever. It is hard to arrive at a place where you feel like you get, I mean, some, not everybody, but there might be it's hard to arrive to that place. Yeah. Well, Cheryl, I also think we live in a society with social media where image is everything. We are putting our best images forward. We give the appearance of being perfect. And sometimes people lose reality and they're not realizing that the person in that picture may look perfect. They may have the right tag. They might have the right whatever. but they don't know what's going on behind the scenes. And so that perfect mirage, if you will, is really messing with our youth. It's messing with women, children. It just gets younger and younger because of the pressures of that perfectionism that's in our society today. I love that you said that, Christy, because with social media, you get a perception of what they want you to see. Right. But what's underneath the surface, no one really knows. They don't want anyone to see that part. So they may even be a close friend, but you really don't know who they really are because they put up that front out of fear or anxiety. Brandy, that's a really good point because really that means, you know, Pam, we've talked about that beforehand about authenticity. I think we're all preferring to be authentic. However, the way our world is, is it's very difficult to be your true self. With the idea of perfectionism, when you're in a place where you are trying to perform to be your very best, and maybe it's to appeal to a loved one, to a good friend, how do you talk to yourself about to come off of the disappointment when you know in your mind, or they may make you feel as though you didn't achieve the expectation. Does that make sense? Well, and I think, too, a lot of times we're people pleasers, which brings anxiety because we're always striving to please those around us, and we build up in our mind perfection. And we're thinking, I need to be better, I should be better. And then we suffer from anxiety because we leave that encounter and we're going to critique ourselves because we're our hardest critiquers. There you go. There's that self-talk. Right. So I thought about it. Patterns of the past that we may have had before the Word of God really imparted the Word into our thinking is we talk down to ourselves. Right, when I think about how I used to be, not that I can't go back there, but I know when I begin to filter with the Word and stay more in touch with the Word every day, the talk, like you're saying... it becomes less of that negative beat yourself up, right? How many, has anybody ever beat yourself up in your mind of, like, I failed? Or you're such a loser. I mean, how many have ever had that thought, right? I think everybody can. Yeah. I hear the word identity when you say that. And it's a misunderstanding of my identity. when I think negative things about myself, because that's never who I am in Christ. And so it's just a practice. I have to train myself to change my thoughts and remember who it is that I am in Christ when I think I'm not enough, because that's always a lie. And, you know, that's really good too, Stacey, when you're saying that, is who is it that we can't tell each other? Like getting that spur of like texting someone and identifying, you know, hey, you know, you really, I really loved your outfit the other day. Even those little small little markers that we can put by saying it in person or you thought about later and like, oh, I forgot to tell them. is reaching out and connecting with people. You talked about, Stacey, about the isolation. And, you know, we don't have to be isolated. We can be so connected by verbalizing, calling somebody up. That's like sometimes it's almost like we're afraid to even call someone, right? Mm-hmm. And I find that even with my own son, he's like, I don't like texting always. I'm just going to call them or I'm going to FaceTime someone. He wants to have that connection. I love the idea of moving away from the fear of going behind. It's easier to text. I don't know if you've ever described that. But anyway, I think walking ourselves back in, like you said, Stacy, is my identity in Christ versus the negative self-talk. And so there's a second identifier, Pam. Would you tell us what our second identifier of anxiety is? Yes, because I just experienced it not too long ago. It's a fear of failure. And in my story, what happened was I was deciding to go back to college. And I was auditing a very, very, very, very, very tough class. And I was the old lady in the back of the class. And I'm thinking, I'm hearing this professor speak and writing down the words, and I don't know half of them. I have to go back and look them up when I get home. I've never heard the words before. The class was on theology. It was very, very difficult to do. And all of a sudden I walked out of that room and thought, I'm going to fail this. I don't know how to do this. I can't study this hard. I don't know. And in fact, I think I talked to you then, Cheryl. I said, this is so hard. You've got to be kidding me. But I really thought that first day that it was it. I was going to fail. That was it. I couldn't do it. And I did it. But it was one of those feelings that I had. I all of a sudden realized that I really... bought into the fact that I was probably too old to do this. And instead I became great friends with the kids in the class. We had coffee together. They talked to me about what they thought about God. We talked about the differences now. And when I grew up, I grew up in the Jesus revolution and I talked to them about being baptized in the river. And it was just a really neat camaraderie. But I have to tell you that first week There were three classes and I almost went the other way because I was afraid I wasn't going to be able to do it. And I think many times we experience something, just dip our toe in and say, whoa, that's a little too hot. That's a little too much. And we don't finish or we don't think we can do it. And we have to learn how to step in anyway. We have to be able to follow where God leads us and realize that. He's not going to do anything to us. It's going to hurt us. It's only going to give us so very much as that experience did me. But. I think that that comes up. It produced great anxiety. I remember calling Cheryl and going, in fact, the next time I took her to class with me, I said, here, see, this is where I'm going. And took her video to show her where I was. But I think that many of us get like that. We just don't pursue because it just feels a little rough at the beginning. And we're not sure. what if I don't do this? What if everybody knows I failed it? What if, what if, what if? And I think that that can be another self-induced anxiety producer. Has anyone ever felt that way with something you encountered or started at the very beginning? You know, Christy, you going back to school to get your counseling degree, psychopharmacology. Wow. I'll just say that class made me want to run, Pam. I feel the pain, but I did it. But those are the things that are being brave. And that's the thing. Here's the counteracting is being brave in those things. You know, some of the things that you, Pam, talked about is those behavioral signals, the what if. You know, that self-talk, again, where we walk through in our mind the idea of an expectation. And we already have, if you've not gone through in your brain and literally walked through and literally told a story in your brain within seconds. Sure. and created, you know, just like the whole thing is if somebody got sick, you're like, oh, I'm going to get sick. Right. We've and then, oh, and then you walk through all of the symptoms that you're going to have. And oh, what I'm going to have to do to change my schedule before anything would even have happened. Right. We share all the conversations we have with people in our minds. I mean, how many times have you had a conversation with someone thinking they're offended with you or upset with you and you rehearse what they say and you say back and forth and they probably didn't even know anything? you walked past them and didn't speak or whatever. Our mind can go in places that it doesn't need to go a lot of times. I've had a few conversations in my mind before. Yeah, there's a really good scripture too, because our heart is, the word says it is alive and is active. And what our heart is for each other is, How is God's Word activated in a place in our life when we need it? And Brandi, I think you have a scripture even that pertains to right in this moment. Yeah. For me, when I stepped into my new role at my job, there was a lot of fear and anxiety of meeting that expectation of a manager over the department. And that was a lot of fear, a lot of new responsibility. I just remember waking up not wanting to go in. And I'm like, where is this coming from? Because I know what God says. I know what he says about me. But in that moment in time, it's like, did I really? But I have to constantly have the word in me. In Psalms 27.1, the Lord is my light and my salvation. Whom shall I fear? Just having to replay that over and say it over and over until you believe it. I like the way you said that too. It's not a one time. You say it and you remind yourself on a regular basis, what does the word say? And so what we're actually doing is we're countering the evil thoughts, the anxiety thoughts, because it's in our head. with what's true, which is what the Word of God says. And so like you said, your verse that you found that really ministered to you was the effective tool that you used, but it takes more than once. And I think that's a part of the anxiety too, is we feel like, well, I already quoted that scripture. Why am I still having these thoughts? There must be something wrong with me. Right. Yeah, I thought I overcame that. Exactly. And it turned back. Yes. But even, Pam, you've talked about it, the... that anxiety is an ongoing process of thinking. So that means, if that's the case, that means, just like you, Veronica, saying, we have to repeat on a daily basis. You know, and Rhonda, you have a good example, too, is you have a pattern in your life every morning. What is that pattern that helps you in this transition of overcoming thoughts? Well, I wanted to comment on what Veronica and Brandy said, and so this is perfect. The Scripture says that He keeps us in perfect peace when our mind has stayed on Him. But our mind isn't always stayed when we confess the word once. So we have to keep bringing our mind back to the word. And so that speaking replaces those thoughts. So when that thought comes, you've got to replace it. And when you speak it, your mind can't hold that thought any longer because it's holding what you're speaking. And so one of the areas that has caused anxiety for me is seeing different family members not living in the way that I had trusted God they would live. And so not seeing that has caused me anxiety and caused me to doubt, did I do the right thing? Did I say the right thing? Did I train this one or that? Did I do what I was meant to do? And I have taken, I take the Word of God each morning, and I take it personally and I pray it over those people in my life. And I allow the Lord to work by activating His Word. The scripture says that He watches over His Word to perform it. So I want to give Him something to watch over. I want to give Him something to perform in my life and in my loved ones lives. And so I do. I there are certain areas I just go through each morning and they're highlighted and I have my pattern there. And that's a big part of how I pray in the morning is to just speak the word over the situations. And I think that. Sometimes we really feel anxiety, as Pam said. It's not just a one and done thing. Oh, I haven't had anxiety today. Anxiety seems to be that dread and that fear that something bad is going to happen or something's not going to turn out the way we hoped. It would. And I think we sense that if we're not seeing the answer. But we have got to just continue to trust God. We have got to continue to hold on and know that He is working. Even when we're not seeing it, even when we're not feeling it, God is working. We sent His word forth, and it will not return void. It will accomplish what it was set forth to do. And so I continue to just speak it and to trust Him and to do it. and to believe it. And I, I, my confidence, my faith is that I will see with my eyes what I've been speaking and what I've been trusting and believing. You know, those are the powerful things when you have declared the word. You know, I mean, I know that Veronica, you have some scriptures related to this, but I have seen you, Rhonda, is you've taken the word when you've been believing for your healing over your eyes. And so we've, over the years, when you would have us come and pray for you and come into agreement, you would give us the scriptures. You would tell us, okay, these are the scriptures to build our faith up with you, which is so great, right? And when that's where that live word is activated, and you are here to testify of the goodness of the Lord. And we celebrate each time when you come back, you're like, I'm doing better. Right? I've seen the faithfulness of God. And, you know, just to share an answer that God gave, last year, I'm due to go back. You know, I go, you know, regularly to be rechecked. But last year when I went, I was told that my testing improved. And what that relates to is the healing of the optic nerve. And my doctor said, we don't see this very often, he said, because normally the tests don't get better. they get worse or they stay the same. And so I know that that was God working in me and in my body. And I, I believed him for that and he was faithful to do it. Isn't that powerful? That's really good. So I don't know. Did anybody else have something related to that? Okay. Caitlin, while I have you first. It's similar to what Rhonda was walking through, because when the Lord was bringing me out of a time of depression, He had me, if I had a thought, a negative thought, He told me to replace it with three positive thoughts. Something good about myself, something thankful, or something from the Scripture, a verse of a song, something to replace that with something negative, with three positive. And it really, looking back, it really changed the way that I really think about myself in a lot of ways because I'm so quick now to think of something great, do something of what the Lord has done in my life because of that time of training. That's a beautiful, beautiful example. The gratitude journals. I've got one. I should write in it more. That almost makes it seem like there was a purpose in your pain. Because now you've trained yourself. And it really trained myself to really turn to the Lord. Because when you go through that day after day, sometimes you can't grab hold of anything. You're like, where's all the good? And then you really have to turn to the Lord and ask the Lord, okay, what's good in this moment? What around me is good when all you see is darkness? And so it trained me to really lean on to the Lord. And I'm hearing you say it trained you to look for the good, which I don't think that we do automatically when we get in that trap of anxiety or depression. It keeps us in the place to where all we think of is a negative. And you learned how to retrain your thought process to look for the good. That's awesome. With the Lord's help. There's no way I could have done it on my own strength. Amen. That's great. Randy? Rhonda touched on something about feelings. When you get in that trap of depression or fear, you get You stay in that funk, I guess, of the feeling of it. But feelings are fleeting. They come and go. So that's why it's so important to have the scripture, the sword, in your hand and ready to wield it. Because it doesn't matter how we're feeling it. What matters is what the Word says, because it's living and breathing and does not return void. So what I'm hearing from you, Brandy, too, is that you're proactive, though. And just like with Caitlin, you're proactive. You're already preparing yourself for the battle. Definitely learning how to take control and stopping the madness of playing it out, Christy, like you've talked about. I played the story out, and it was not a good ending. It was bad. And the self-talk, I'm like, okay... take it captive. I see something on that. One thing I liked about what Brandy said is you alluded to the fact that the scripture is your sword and you were wielding it at your thoughts. Well, in Ephesians 6 it tells us that we have the sword of the Spirit and it's sharper than any two-edged sword. which is the Word of God. And so that's when I like to go to the website, theirefresh.net, because there are scriptures on the website by category. So you can look up, and I think that is such a great resource, because sometimes when we're in, like Caitlin explained, when we're in that place, the darkness, there's... We may not know a scripture. We may not know where to begin. But if we have a website, we have a resource that we can go to and start there, pulling the scripture out by category, and then that's a starting place. Then we have that sword of the Spirit. Then we start making progress. We can always build on that. But I just, I thought of that when I was listening to your testimony. That's such a great word. Well, Cheryl, one thing that is prevalent here while I'm listening to you all is that it's important to help each other, to reach out to one another. And sprinkled through your conversation is, well, I talk to you, right? It's very important. I don't think God created us to be alone. And I like... I think when we were talking about anxiety, Cheryl, I talked about how we need each other. And I gave you the example of, I remember when I learned how to ride a bike, my dad ran behind me to make sure I didn't fall. Then pretty soon you get the wobbly training wheels. But then the scripture that I think is so exciting about that, because a lot of times we're wobbling and trying not to fall is, um, I, Isaiah 41 10, don't be afraid for I'm with you. Don't be discouraged for I am your God. I will strengthen you and help you. And here's the great part. And I will hold you up with my victorious right hand. So a lot of times when I get into situations where I'm like, this is not, this is not good. I'm wobbling. I think about being a little girl and having my dad run behind me, holding up the seat of my two wheeler. Knowing that I couldn't do it by myself. And I would say, are you still there? Are you still there? And all of a sudden I took off and I could ride without turning wheels. And I think that's what God does for each of us through friendship and being able to reach out and get help. That's so good. You know, that's true. You know, Pam, one of the things, too, that Veronica, you know, we have prayed over people over times. One scripture I hear you've prayed over people is in 2 Timothy 1.7. And, you know, that, if maybe you can say it better, I love the one of the translations we also have in our notes about the spirit of fear, that God totally didn't douse us with the spirit of fear. Right. Yeah. Yeah, you know, the word says that God did not give us a cowardly spirit, but a spirit of power, love, and good judgment. And another translation says he gives us a sound mind. And I really like that scripture because it gives us the ability to realize that that battle in our mind, we do have the ability to overcome. And we can use the Word of God to counteract, as we've already explained, with the thoughts. And we take those thoughts captive. And then we're renewing our mind. What does the Word say? We renew our mind daily with the Word of God. Again, back to that, not just once. Right? That's good. I'd like us to go into this segment where we look at actual solutions. We've actually hinted to a lot of those things, but we're going to kind of specifically go through points of solutions that we have encountered, experienced, or we've encouraged others, or we've walked it through on how to overcome anxiety in our life. Christy, you want to start with one? Sure. Practical things for when you're feeling anxiety would be a physical thing. action like deep breathing. When you get those deeper breaths, it slows your heartbeat back into a regular rhythm. If you're working with a child, it might be difficult to show them how to do deep breathing so you can have them smell the soup. sniff their soup and then blow out the candle. So you can do different techniques with anyone you can go, oh, I'm gonna do it. So you can do different techniques with anyone you can go, And so you go with up, you inhale, down, you exhale. And that's by using your hand. You've got to explain it for our podcast. Yes, for my podcasters. I am holding up my fingers and I'm going up my thumb, down my thumb, up my index finger, and up and down. And as you go up, you inhale. As you go down, you breathe out. And it just gets your mind open. off you're focused on the breathing you're again it regulates your heartbeat and your breathing it's just a good technique what are some other ideas we've kind of listed here for but what are some go ahead and let's begin pam you may have some as well as just some practical ways that we can bring down our anxiety exercise exercise brandy yes what else taking a walk taking a walk love those sometimes we just need a nap Nap, that would be welcome. That's uninterrupted. Yes, uninterrupted. Okay, talk to a friend. Talk to a friend. And splashing cold water on your face creates, takes your mind off the anxiety, and you can regroup. A lot of people that are going into court, you'll see them in the bathroom doing that because they regroup. Wow, practical. Wow. Okay. You know, we love to laugh. We were laughing before we started our podcast. I think that a great way to reset is to find a funny clip, watch it. I mean, if you don't know what to watch, pull up Lucy and I Love Lucy and watch a good I Love Lucy show and just laugh. Praise and worship music. Yes. Okay. And then, so the other things that we do is, we've already talked about it, about scriptures, but the other thing is we've got to be careful if we feel like giving the scripture to someone, we may identify what someone's problem might be, and just to toss the scripture out and not making sure it's done in love, versus judgment or criticism, there's a way in which we would do it. Who would want to tell? What do you do when you feel like you're supposed to give a scripture to someone? Who's ever done that, and what caused you to feel like you needed to share it? I do. Anytime somebody comes up on my mind, I make a practice to text them, just letting them know I'm thinking of them, and then give them a little encouragement of scripture. Okay. It's fun to have, I have certain friends who actually share a scripture with me, and I'm like, oh, and then they'll say, like, but I'm praying for you, and this is what I'm praying over you. And that's what's nice is that there's deliberately have a scripture that they're praying over me. And so that's like a warm fuzzy, right? Well, our friend Laura, who can't be with us today, she has a daily habit of when she's doing her devotions in the morning and reading the word of God. She deliberately finds something to share with her children. So she has two sons and two daughter-in-laws. And so she texts that out to them and just to encourage them to start their day. And I think it's a great habit. And the kids appreciate it. Let's look at the challenge. If someone is, let's say that someone has anxiety, but they are not a believer or they've walked away from the Lord for a while, that would not probably be the first line of helping. So what in our conversation could we do to inspire? Because I know that, Brandy, that's been a question you brought up when we were discussing it before. What do you think you or what have you done in those scenarios? Yes. For me, I have an unsaved family member, so it's really hard to be able to talk openly how I believe or about Jesus because I get shut down. So what I do is just continue to love him anyway. And he's seen where I have come out of and how I live now. And that's a testimony in itself. So just continue to show love and just be there for him. And just pray that his heart softened. Veronica, you shared something when we were talking earlier. I thought that was a really powerful thing. I think, you know, I like to just be able to use my own example if I'm talking to an unbeliever. And so it's not so much preaching or judging them as much as it's sharing with them, this is what's helped me. This is what I've chosen. You know, I choose to quote the scripture or the word of God says this about the situation. And it really helped me. You might want to try it. You know, I find that just giving them suggestions more than and it's not a judgment. It's simply a way for them to try something to try. Which is a good point, right? Because I think all of us, we don't like to be told what to do. Right. So when you put yourself in anybody's shoe, the application of when somebody just tells you to do something... It doesn't matter what your age is. I think we all, you put a wall up right away. You're like, who gives you the right, you know? But I think when you can share out of your own personal experience, you kind of diffuse that. I agree. And you just kind of toss it out there. Or here's a good word, consider. Yes. A powerful word. You might want to consider. Here's a thought. And then you leave it there and you kind of walk away. You plant the seed and you walk away from it. Right? Along the line of what Veronica was saying, I've heard it said, no one can argue with your testimony because it's your testimony. And so if you're sharing what happened to you and how it worked for you and how you perhaps prayed for something or how... you know, you just really believed what you read in the Bible, or there are just ways that you can say it, but it's what happened to you. And they can't argue with that. And, you know, just to share that can be encouraging to others. And, you know, I think of something recently that was kind of a miracle testimony in our lives that I was sharing with some of the ladies at work, and they were like, wow, that really is a miracle. I mean, because it was something that seemed so impossible, but it happened. And so that was encouraging. And that wasn't along the lines of anxiety necessarily, but just a way to share with people who are not necessarily believers or who maybe don't, you know, see the Word of God in the same way we do, you know. That's powerful. You guys have all had tremendous... I'm taking more notes. We have lots of notes, and I'm taking more notes. We'll have show notes on the website at iRefresh.net that we have given you a whole lot of incredible examples things in the scripture for you to overcome because the Lord says if we will testify, what we talked about, if we testify, no one can take away from that testimony. And when we testify, we overcome by the blood of the Lamb and the word of our testimony. Yeah. And so, you know, our heart is for you is to walk these things out, ponder them. Mary says, Mary, ponder those things in her heart. If you said, I've tried a lot of those things and it don't work is you've also said you have to do it daily. That's our heart is. Can we encourage you to daily walk it out? Never give up. God never gave up on us. No matter how many times he even said, you know, how often we to disciples, how often do you forgive? What was it? Seven times seven. So there is a redundancy, and you can't quit. God says not quit. You know, one of the things we don't want to take away from the seriousness of it, you know, some anxiety is incredibly dangerous, and we don't want to take that lightly. Major... catastrophes can happen and be overwhelmed, you know, God also provides resources. And one of the things we wanted to also make note of is Pam and Christy with your profession, you have some resources to help for those things that are really like a lot of... mental health issues that do need extra care. So, you know, one of the things that I learned going to Oral University is Oral talked about, you know, you bring prayer and medicine together. And you're working hand in hand. And it's trusting God, but you're using direction from the Lord to help you to define how you're going to receive the health and healing that he wants to give to you. So, Christy and Pamela, why don't you share... what you would do and some things that are a little bit more serious than our everyday life. There are several hotlines and places for you to get help. There are resource centers that can give you information about things that you can... that are in your area. There are 800 numbers. And the Anxiety and Depression Association of America is a very good resource if you feel like you need additional help. Um... I'll give you the number. It's 240-485-1001. And you can find that number in our show notes also. And the National Alliance on Mental Illness is a place that you can call and get a counselor in your area. That's licensed. 800-950-6264. Or you can text NAMI, N-A-M-I, to 741-741. If you're in a situation where your friend has suicidal ideations because it's just too much, then you may call 800-273-8255, the Suicide Prevention Hotline. And we are finding out now that we are having a lot more veterans that have anxiety that are dealing with that, especially exacerbated since COVID happened. And that veteran crisis line, and they're very good about helping someone in your family, any kind of veteran or if you're a veteran, 800-272-7222. 8255 or text 838255. And those numbers, even though they're United States numbers, they can identify people that are very near to you and even help arrange rides for you if you don't have a way to get extra help. Another great resource, if you're looking for a therapist or a counselor, you'll find licensed therapists and licensed social workers on psychologytoday.com. You go on there, you type in your city, your state, your zip code, and then you can look at specifics. Like, I want a Christian counselor. I want a couples counselor. I would like family therapy. You can put in the different areas that you're needing help with, and they will give you a list of therapists that you can go and contact with. And it is a great way you can read their bios, look and see what they believe. They should have statements of how they practice, whether it's cognitive behavior therapy or solution-based or all the different things. So do a little research if you want to before you get on there, but we'll have that in the show notes as well. And it's a great way for you to find a therapist in your area. That was really helpful. So I don't know if there's any other highlights or things we want to point people to between the two of you, Pam and Christy. Well, we just have to say, you know, there are a lot of prayer lines that are available as a resource for you too. And don't shy away from that. You don't have to be an expert in the word of God to ask for prayer. I would encourage you to do that any chance you feel like the need is there. That's great. Thank you so much for joining us on this episode about all things anxiety. And we'd love to refer to you our resources at I refresh.net, especially the area says praying scriptures, where we have dozens of topics where you can take the word and apply it, speak it out and bring life into your situations. Thank you for joining us. We are ready whenever you guys are. We are recording by screen, right?